The Best of Theforge
Volume 2 of 3
Compiled and edited by: Ron Reil
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Note: Multiple articles within a topic are separated by " ******** " between each article. Also, the links to other related resources only link to the page, not to the numbered resource. You will need to scroll down to the listed resource entry. In some cases additional unlinked information may be included in the various "Misc. Information" topics.
67. FORGING HINGES
68. MISCELLANEOUS TOOLS and SOURCES (Also Vol. 1, #14, 55 & Vol. 3, #114, 127)
69. FIREBRICK AND REFRACTORY FOR FORGES (Also Vol. 1, #24)
70. SEARCHING "THEFORGE" ARCHIVE
71. CLEANING WELDS AND SURFACES(Also Vol. 1, #33, 35 &Vol. 3, #119)
72. CHEAP BANDSAWS(Also Vol. 1, #57)
73. GAS FORGES(Also Vol. 3, #130)
74. STEEL INFORMATION(Also Vol. 1, #25 &Vol. 3, #117)
75. TREADLE HAMMERS(Also Vol. 1, #61 &Vol. 3, #123)
76. HYDRAULIC PRESSES(Also Vol. 1, #32)
77. FLY PRESSES
78. DRILL BITS
79. ANVILS AND ANVIL REPAIR(Also Vol. 1, #36 &Vol. 3, #136)
80. HOODS AND CHIMNEYS(Also Vol. 1, #63)
81. HARDENING AND TEMPERING STEEL (Also Vol. 1, #41)
82. SOLDERING
83. POST VISES
84. AIR HAMMERS AND OTHER POWER HAMMERS(Also Vol. 1, #18 &Vol. 3, #129)
85. REPOUSSE'(Also Vol. 1, #29)
86. BLOWERS
87. TORCHES
88. TAVERN PUZZLES:
89. FRO BLADES
90. FORGING LEAVES(Also Vol. 1, #49 &Vol. 3, #138)
91. BOOKS (Also Vol. 1, #46 & Vol. 3, #125)
92. STRIKERS(Also Vol. 1, #45)
93. FLUX (Also Vol. 1, #6, 42 & Vol. 3, #124)
94. COAL AND COKE(Also Vol. 1, #12)
95. REPAIR OF CRACKED PAN FORGE
96. NAIL HEADERS
97. RAILROAD SPIKES(Also Vol. 1, #26 &Vol. 3, #132)
98. ARC WELDING AND WELDING ROD(Also Vol. 1, #3, 4, 5 &Vol. 3, #122)
99. IRON FINISHES(Also Vol. 1, #33, 35 &Vol. 3, #128)
101. LOW HEAT FORGE WELDING(Also Vol. 1, #54)
102. SOLDERING ON PATTERN WELDED BLADES
103. MARKING PENCILS FOR STEEL
104. HAMMERS AND HAMMER HANDLES(Also Vol. 1, #65)
105. SWAGE BLOCKS(Also Vol. 3, #131)
106. JACKHAMMER BITS
107. LINING FORGE PANS(Also Vol. 1, #13 &Vol. 3, #115)
108. MORE ON SUPERQUENCH(Also Vol. 1, #26 &Vol. 3, #121)
109. SURFACE TEXTURES FOR STEEL (Also Vol. 1, #35 &Vol. 3, #128)
110. FLOOR CONE MANDRELS
111. BENDING TUBING(Also Vol. 3, #134)
112. WROUGHT IRON(Also Vol. 1, #10, 40, 50)
Continued in Volume #3
*** See also Volumes 1&3 for more resource information. ***
Doug,
I have cheated with hinges for two reasons, customer wanted them
yesterday, or didn't want to spring for a fully hand-crafted pair.
Most hardware stores sell hinges designed to be welded in place, they are
made with no screw holes. If you can find the size you are after, they
cut the fabrication time well over half. Texture the hinge leaves to
match your embellishment, re-shape or cut down to match the angle, and
gas or electric weld the embellishment to the leaf, drill new screw
holes to your customer's specs. Forming the barrell is, at least for
me, the most time consuming, and therefore expensive, part of a hinge
project. Peen the head of the factory pin a little, and burn off all
the plating. Finish with linseed oil, or something that will cover both
metals equally. The hinge material is usually different than your mild
steel embellishment, and will take some finishes differently, resulting
in a definate demarkation line between the two metals. Also, remember to
blend the weld line completely. To those who make hinges routinely, this
will sound like a lot more work than just making the barrell yourself
anyway, but I haven't acquired the skill yet, and it seems easier for
me. At any rate, it's an alternative, particularly if you have a big
order for hinges that require a lot of careful cutting and filing of the
barrells. We did two jobs of 30 pairs for a contractor. Totally hand
forged ones sent the guy into a fit, so we stopped and refigured. He
couldn't tell the difference between our finished (fabricated) and our
finished hand-forged. It took half the time, and we charged him 3/4,
everybody was happy.
Bob
****************
> Do you have experience with hand forged hinges? If so, I need help, advice
>or better yet, come on over and do these blasted things for me. er, just
>kidding...
> Do I hot rivet or cold rivet the hinge? Whenever I cold rivet, the pin
> distorts. Hot riveting makes it too tight.
> How in the world do you make the tail and strap, hinge parallel? I have
>made close to 5 complete hinges and am not satisfied with the trueness. Or
>am I expecting too much out of hand forged? I am desiring the same close
>fit that store bought ones have. This should be obtainable I would think.
>Or maybe, I am just trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear. This
>being the analogy to my talents, not the capability.
>
> Anyway, if you have the magic, please send some my way.
>
>scratchinghead smith, magnuson
> Do I hot rivet or cold rivet the hinge? Whenever I cold rivet, the pin
> distorts. Hot riveting makes it too tight.
I am not sure what you mean by this, are you talking about the hinge pin
that goes thru the rolled "barrel". Also what size stock are you making
these out of?
Here is what I can tell you. lets say you are makinmg a pair of hinges out
of 1/4 inch by 2 inch. First forge your decorative end to it's finished
state, next is really the hinge part, bevel the flat side if your hinge end
the same distance as the material thickness, in this case 1/4 inch, you do
this so after it is reolled you are not trying to cram a perpindicular end
into a circular rolled edge. Start rolling or curving your barrel over the
off side of your anvil so the bevel side of your stock will end up on the
outside of the barrel. Do this at a nice yellow hrat with many light
blows. When your barrel is about 2/4 of the way formed and starting with a
new yellow heat drive a drift the size of your finished hinge pin into your
partially formed barrel. finish forging with the drift in place. If you
have a swage block you can clean your barrel, (with the drift in), in the
appropriate swage in your block. the hinge would be upside down at this
time and you would be striking the back side of the barrel wherer it meets
the strap. If you don't have a swage block you maay have a top swage of
appropriate size and you can do the same process only your hinge would be
lying on your anvil with the finished side showing and you would be placing
your swage on the front of the barrel. Do not quench your hinge, after
normalizing drive your drift thru again cold and then try your finished
pin. If it is still to tight you can drill your barrel out the same size
as you pin stock. When drilling place your hinge so the turning of the
drill does not pull the barrel tighter and bind on your drill bit, when
you place your hinge for drilling look at it then tuen it over and look
again, you'll see what I mean.
> How in the world do you make the tail and strap, hinge parallel?
I am also not sure of your terminology here. Do you mean both ends of you
hinge ending up on the same plain? I guess it is mostly a matter of
keeping things true throughout the entire process. It sounds like you
might not be using enough heat anf forcing distortions along the length.
>am I expecting too much out of hand forged? I am desiring the same close
>fit that store bought ones have. This should be obtainable I would think.
>Or maybe, I am just trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear. This
>being the analogy to my talents, not the capability.
No, you are not expecting to much out of hand forged, Do you remember the
first time you tried to parallel park? I bet it was a lot easier after 25
times and after 500 it was a natural process. Hinges are easier than
parallel parking, but the first few are still a challenge.
>I need help, advice or better yet, come on over and do these blasted
>things for me. er, just
>kidding...
You can take my advise for what it's worth, hopefully someone else will
also jump in here with more opinions, I am sure there are other ways and
tricks. But if you are still frustrated come on over and I'll show you
what I know, every Wednesday night is open forge.
Roger Olsen,
MISCELLANEOUS TOOLS AND SOURCES:
As a follow up on my earlier post regarding plastic magnifing lens that can
be added to any glasses. They arrived and work as billed. Went out an
bought a new pair of safety glasses, washed the glasses and the new plastic
lens in warm soapy water. Postioned the lens on the safety glasses and blot
dry. Voila! There is a bit of distortion, but it isn't objectionable and
probably due to the curve in the glasses. The lens can be repositioned and
removed easily.
They have a web site www.neoptix.com where you can get more information and
order the product. This would be handy for use with welding goggles,
sunglasses, scuba masks as well as safety glasses.
Thought you old timers might find it useful.
Don Fogg
****************
howell@sqi.com writes:
>I missed their number or address in the previous posts. Can any of you
>kindly folk supply it?
>Grazie,
>Steve
Harbor Freight Tools
3491 Mission Oaks Blvd.
Camarillo CA 93011-6010
1-800-423-2567 orders, 24 hrs a day
1-800-444-3353 tech info. 7am-4:30 pm Pacific time
Chris
***************
At 06:44 PM 2/19/97 EST, you wrote:
>I have an old ball peen hammer that is really beat. <clip>
> Robert H. Neidlinger "The Tomb Guard"
I don't believe that there is enough metal to make a good hawk.
I buy virtually every (low priced) hammer that I find at garage sales. I
grind the pein end to make handled gravers. You can make them sharp similar
to walking chisels or dull similar to top fullers. I heat the metal and
then, using the pein-graver, mark borders, edges, or single or multiple
scored lines on the metal. Usually this is done on metal bars before
twisting. For example, by putting a single line down the middle of the bar
on all four sides, and then twisting, the bar looks like four smaller bars
were put together and then twisted.
By shaping the head, you can make one side much longer than the other. The
long side would guide down the edge of the metal and the shorter edge
actually makes the groove an even and consistant distance from the edge.
I have a variety of edges for varying effects.
Ray
***************
The anvil tool I mentioned is a helper for "drop the tongs" welds,
where a small piece is being welded to a longer one, like if you had made
the jaws to a pair of tongs, and were welding them to the reins instead
of drawing. Made of rebar, it is forged to fit your pritchell hole for
an inch, then bent to a right angle. Insert it into your pritchell,
measure to the far edge of your anvil, bend down 45 degrees, then another 45
the other way, so the top of the bar is now flush with your anvil face.
About three inches more and bend so the tail of the bar comes almost
parallel with your anvil side, and raises a little as it extends toward
your horn. Be sure to have the roughest part of the rebar up, keep the
inevetable seam on the sides. The support allows you to clamp the
smaller part in tongs with a ring. In use, the smaller element in the
weld is placed on the support, scarf up, and the rein part is pressed on
it, scarf down. You'll save the second or two most
important in welding, and you don't have to take a chance on
mis-positioning the two parts at a time when speed is of greatest
importance.
My ASCII art is worse than the explanation :-( If you need
a sketch, an s.a.s.e. to Bob, 3205 West North Front St.
Grand Island, Ne. 68803, will get you a pretty good cad drawing of it
***************
where can I get metal stampings
>Bob Hendricks
All of the co's listed below were represented at the NOMMA MetalFab last
week. All have very nice catalogs that EVERYONE should get. If not to order
then for reference and idea germination. The Pietrocola, Barry, and
Triebenbacher catalogs are IMHO the best.
Not in any particular order
New Metals, Inc
5823 Northgate, Suite 2032
Laredo, TX 78041-2697
18886396382
http://www.newmetals.com
Crescent City Iron Supply
9835 Derby Lane
Westchester, IL 60154
18005359842
Triebenbacher Bavarian Iron Works
619 Pennbrook Ave
Lansdale, PA 19446
18005224766
Barry Pattern & Foundry Co
3333 35th Ave N.
Birmingham, AL 35207
18005241809
Pietrocola & Sons Iron Suppliers, Inc
1672 East 233rd ST
Bronx, NY 10466
718-324-6871
Email: pietrocola@pipeline.com
Julius Blum & Co
PO Box 816
Carlstadt, NJ 07072-0816
18005266293
Texas Metal Industries
PO Box 154
Crandall, TX 75114
18002226033
Daesa
1309 E 7th St
Austin, TX 78702
18003237287
Tennessee Fabricating Co
2025 York Ave
Memphis, TN 38104
18002584766
Email : tnfab@memphisonline.com
New Metals, Inc
5823 Northgate, Suite 2032
Laredo, TX 78041-2697
18886396382
http://www.newmetals.com
Michael Linn
***************
Hi gang, just found this note and thought it might be of interest.
Subject: Re: Low cost pyrometer
>Does anyone know a source for a low cost pyrometer? I have
>a small furnace for melting aluminum and brass.
I made one out of that little thingamajig thet sits in the pilot flame and
has two wires connecting it to the valve. I hooked it up to an analog
voltmeter (0-3V) and made a new scale using a friend's real pyrometer.
Works real nice for brass and Al
temperatures, but I don't know it it can stand CI tepms.
Also, try www.dejanews.com and search for pyrometer. You won't beleve how
often this topic comes up on this NG.
Alex
*************
Gene wrote
> Hi gang, just found this note and thought it might be of interest.---
> >Does anyone know a source for a low cost pyrometer? I have
> >a small furnace for melting aluminum and brass.
> I made one out of that little thingamajig thet sits in the pilot flame
<snip>
For a really snazzy homemade Optical Pyrometer,
check out ----> http://tbr.state.tn.us/~wgray/howto/optpyro.html
for complete plans, wiring diagrams, how to calibrate, etc.
I may have to build one of these to check out how hot my shop really gets
this summer :-)
Lee Catlow
**************
On Apr 25, 10:28am, mbalent@csc.com wrote:
> Subject: Re: Hosseld Hand Bender
> From: Matt Balent
> What size stock are you going to be bending? This can make
> a BIG dollar difference when deciding which bender to buy.
> - Matt
>
As for the Hossfeld Bender, there are only two sizes. The price difference, the
last time I checked was not very large between them, so get the #2 bender. In
addition, the is another company that make a Hossfeld bender look-alike for
less money. The addresses etc are:
American Bending Inc.
1175 E. Broadway
P.O. Box 64
Winona, MN 55987
507-452-4955
507-452-7318 fax
Maker of a bender similar to the Hossfeld #2. Cost is substancially less than
Hossfeld. All parts and dies except the angle iron dies are available.
Contact Wally.
Hossfeld Mfg. Co.
P.O.Box 557
Winona, MN 55987
507-452-2182
507-454-1194 fax
Manufactures the Hossfeld Universal Bender. This will bend most
sizes and shapes of metal. Good for single bends and/or production.
Hundreds of dies available.
Another source for benders is:
Shop Outfitters
605 South Adams Street
Laramie, WY 82070
307-745-5999
307-742-5999 fax
Compact metal working tools including a bender with several (optional)
attachments like scrollers and a bar twister, ring roller, and heavy stock brake.
Finding used machinery in good condition could have you paying as much as new
or you could have a good deal. Check machinery auctions, used machinery
dealers, or ...
A coupla used machinery dealers who could give advice/help are:
Altman Machinery Co., Inc.
4343 S. Oakley Ave.
Chicago, Illinois 60609
312-247-4343
312-247-2666 fax
AltmanMchy@aol.com email
Used machinery and other old equipment dealers.
Lee's Machinery
2428 Antioch Road
Perry, OH 44081
216-259-2222
Good source for used machinery of all kinds. The service is good and
the advise helpful. Ask for Mike Zinn.
Meridian Machinery
P.O. Box 1
Babylon, NY 11702
516-422-1821
Warehouse:
21 Hicks Street
Lindenhurst, NY 11757
516-956-1442
mermac@ix.netcom.com email
http://pw2.netcom.com/~mermac
http://hre.com/meridian/
Used machine tools of all kinds. Friendly, knowledgable staff. Efficient
service.
Morton Machinery Co.
2910 South Santa Fe Avenue
Los Angeles, CA 90058-1400
213-627-2881
213-583-8693 fax
http://www.mortonmachinery.com
mark@mortonmachinery.com
Large inventory of used machinery.
PKE, Inc.
P.O. Box 6595
Libertyville, IL 60048-6595
847-362-0014
847-362-5657 fax
pmcpke@cris.com
http://www.cris.com/~pmcpke/
Good source of used machinery. They specialize in tin knocker
stuff and always have Pexto everything, beverly shears, circle shears,
Hossfeld, and Diacro benders. The prices are good, the service is
friendly and the advise helpful. Ask for Norman Alhalel.
This is all I have. Let me know what you find.
Mark W.
*************
Page 17 of Whitaker's 'Cookbook' says:
'Tenon Monkey tools can be made from hollow core drill rods. Anneal first, then drill out to size. No hardening is needed as they are very tough steel'.
Steve Howell
************
At 02:39 PM 4/29/97 -0700, you wrote:
>I have a couple of 3" balls out of an old ball mill that should be
>sturdy enough to handle the shock.
>Morgan
`Another idea for the steel balls, is to get in touch with a local
scale company.( one that services large truck and RR track scales). In the
process of converting some of the older mechanical scales to electronic
loadcells they usually throw-away the "balls and ballplates" and the knife
bearings. The balls(really just big ball bearings) and the knife bearings
are 52100 steel. The knife bearings are rectangular in shape with one long
side that comes to an edge.
The bearings can range from a few inches long (round for balls) to
several feet long and 4-5" thick (from a 1million lb RR trackscale). I
understand that the knifemakers love 52100. I used a piece for a cold
hardie, just welded on a stub and used it as is. These balls along with
their matching plates just might work for what you want.
mike
*************
A few days ago we discussed bending jigs. One small homemade one that I've
seen photos of was in the book called "Shop Savvy". That book, when I
searched at amazon.com showed to be out of print, though it's in my city
library. So I did a few drawings of this simple jig, put it on a web site
with description at, http://www.flash.net/~dwwilson/bjg/bjg.html
This is not a mini Hossfield. It's for small, hand bending of lighter
metal. Cost may be $5 depending on salvage finds. You can bend scrolls, "S"
hooks, etc., with it.
David
mailto:dwwilson@flash.net
Forge Plans; http://www.flash.net/~dwwilson/forge/fgpl.html
*************
From: Matt Balent
Here is some more info on the Hall Punch-Cutter-Bender.
Punches 5/16 hole in 1/4 inch. Side or end punch to 5/8 center.
Center punch to 1 5/16 centers. Center punch handles up to
2 5/8 bar width.
Bends up to 1/4 x 2 cold or 3/8 x 3 hot.
Shears up to 5/16 x 2 bar or 1/2 round.
Comes with 5/16 punch standard, 3/8 and 1/4 optional.
John Hall Company
1137 Hwy 57
Brussels, WI 54204
(414) 825-1295
*************
IF You are looking for ACME nuts, rod, ckeck out
GREEN BAY MFG. CO.
BOX 206
APPLETON WI 54912
PH. 414-730-0023
all kinds of nuts, acme rod, also steel balls
****************
> Subject: New Firepot
> I am looking for a source of firepots other than centaur forge. Thanks in
> advance.
> Steve Bean
Steve,
Though none of these is in Vermont, one may fit the bill for you.
Lorance Forge and Castings
(Roger Lorance)
16412 E. Illinois 9 Highway
Canton, IL 61520
309-647-9242
Makes heavy-duty firepots, swage blocks and cone mandrels. Descriptive
brochure available.
Lunenburg Industrial Foundry & Engineering
53 Falkland
P.O.Box 1240
Lunenburg, NS B0J 2C0
CANADA
902-634-8827
902-634-8886 fax
http://www.isisnet.com/life/cat
life@isisnet.com
Makers of several firepots for the forge. Ask for one with the square
hole as it has a pattern for a clinker breaker.
Wrought Iron & Metal Products
(Gerald L. Hawkins)
132 Weinland Drive
New Carlisle, Ohio 45344
513-849-6964
Makes complete firepots (fire pot, clinker breaker and ash dump).
Laurel Machine & Foundry Co.
P.O.Box 1049
810 Front Street
Laurel, MS 39440
601-428-0541
601-425-5617 fax
Makes anvils, swage blocks, large & small cones, fire pots,
and clinker breakers.
Try one or try them all. Hope one suits you.
Mark
*************
On Jun 26, 6:11pm, Dave B. wrote:
> Subject: Hosfeld benders
> All right folks, who took it? I know I saved the info on the address and
> stuff on Hosfeld, plus information on a similar bender. Now I can't find
> it, and I'm sure I didn't lose it. So, some one must have invaded my hard
> drive and deleted it.
>
> So, would someone be kind enough to e-mail or repost the information. I'm
> particularly interested in getting the video on using one, plus the
> instruction manual.
> Thanks <grin>
> Dave Brown
Dave,
I'm just going to write out what I've got in the supplier's list for you on benders.
Akron Welding & Spring Co.
925 S Main St.
P.O. Box 190
Akron, OH 44311
216-376-2242
Supplier of Hossfeld benders and bending dies as well as other
industrial supplies.
American Bending Inc.
1175 E. Broadway
P.O. Box 64
Winona, MN 55987
507-452-4955
507-452-7318 fax
Maker of a bender similar to the Hossfeld #2. Cost is substancially less than
Hossfeld. All parts and dies except the angle iron dies are available.
Contact Wally.
Paramount Machinery Corporation
P.O. Box 7272
Libertyville, IL 60048-7272
Warehouse and Office:
197 Peterson Rd.
Libertyville, IL 60048
847-362-5599
847-362-6232 fax
normpmc@concentric.net email
http://www.concentric.net/~Normpmc/ web site
Good source of used machinery. They specialize in tin knocker
stuff and always have Pexto everything, beverly shears, circle shears,
Hossfeld, and Diacro benders. The prices are good, the service is
friendly and the advise helpful. Ask for Norman Alhalel.
Hossfeld Mfg. Co.
P.O.Box 557
Winona, MN 55987
507-452-2182
507-454-1194 fax
Manufactures the Hossfeld Universal Bender. This will bend most
sizes and shapes of metal. Good for single bends and/or production.
Hundreds of dies available
Hope one of these sources is the one for you.
Mark
*************
> Subject: Re: 2 foot folding rule
> I would like too add to this question. Does anyone know where a two foot
> BRASS rule could be obtained. I have read that the old smiths had brass
> rules to eliminate the rust problem, and I have searched the flea markets
> for them without success. Do any of you have one, and are they made today?
> Thanks.....
> Ron
> > From: John Elliott
>> Does anybody have an idea where to buy a reasonably price 2 foot metal
> > rule. ( folds in the middle) I'v found old blacksmith rules but of
> > course the tool collectors want $25 to $30 each.
>-- End of excerpt from Ron Reil
I think Centaur Forge has both steel and brass two foot folding rulers. The
brass ones come from England, I think. I posted Porter-Walker's address for the
steel rules. Call them. They may have a source of brass rules.
Mark
************
Ron,
MSC is one of the largest industrial supply houses in the country. They expect
you to have a business name before they send you a catalog, however you can
give them almost any name. When you get your catalog, you have an account set
up. No paperwork at all. The catalog is HUGE. This year's was about 3200 pages
hardbound. They sell a wide range of products. In most cases they offer a range
of quality/price. For example, drill bits range from low price imports to high
price, top of the line American-made bits - High speed steel, cobalt, TiN
coated and others.
Give them a call. Their shipping map says that Idaho should have two day
shipping. They try for fast turnaround times 24 hours usually.
MSC Industrial Supply Company
151 Sunnyside Blvd.
Plainview, NY 11803-1592
800-645-7270
800-255-5067 fax
516-349-0265 FAX
http://www.industry.net/mrop/msc
Suppliers of everything from nuts & bolts to machinery. Their
catalog runs to 3000 pages. They prefer a business name, but will
sell to anyone.
Hope you enjoyed the flea market and got enough bargains to make the trip
worthwhile.
Mark
***********
Francis Whitaker's book "The Blacksmith's Cookbook Recipes in Iron" has
plans for a shear. Capacity: " 1/4 x 4", 5/8 square or round, and 3/8 x
1-1/2". It looks fairly straight forward to build with a drill press and a
welder. Francis states he has been using his for 50 years.
Hope this helps
Dan
**************
el doesn't seem to be in the
new catalogs) but it works like a dream. A friend asked for advice on
buying a hammer drill. I said, "Don't bother, you want one rated as a
rotary hammer for use in granite. Here try mine." so he went out to his
pickup and came back with a piece of granite he had been trying to drill,
put it into the post vice, set the drill pulled the trigger and then said,
"Jeez, the bit must be slipping back into the chuck." And then stepped
back speechless, he had drilled a 2 1/2" hole and didn't even realise he
had been drilling.
Before I bought the Rotary hammer, I went to drill 3/8 by 3" holes in 120
granite blocks for use as bases for an edition of awards. I drilled for 15
minutes on one with my old Milwaukee and still wasn't done. I figured if I
was going to get done before doomsday I had better find a better way.
I went to Fastenrite in St.Paul and asked my friend Tom for advice.
He asked me how many holes I had to drill, and then offered to loan me the
drill to use. 20 seconds per hole.
I bought it.
Gene
FIREBRICKS AND REFRACTORIES FOR FORGES: (See Also Volume #1)
I just bought 10 sq feet of a refractory felt called "Cerachrome" aerospace
insulation manufactured by Johns-Mansfield for $3.00 per sq.foot. Its rated
to 2600°F continuous duty, and higher for transient service. The spec sheet
says its unaffected by chemicals except hydrofloric and phosphoric acid and
strong alkalies. I dont remember the distributor (he was at the Blade
Symposium) but the address of the mfr is:
Johns-Mansfield Aerospace Dept.
Ken-Caryl Ranch
Denver, CO 80217
303-979-1000
You might can call them and get the name of a local distributor.
mike
************
Hi all:
I played hooky from work today, due to an equipment failure and found a
company that carries one hell of a selection of refractories and
insulation.
It's the, "E.J. Bartells Co." They have offices in: Anchorage, Billings,
Mt, Denver, Co, Eugene, Or, Kennewick, Wa, Medford, Or, Portland, Or,
Renton, Wa, Salt Lake City, Ut and Spokane, Wa.
I picked up some 1" 8lb Kaowool for $0.60/sq,ft and a ramable refractory
with a working temp of 3,100f that's chemically resistant, especially to
caustics for $20.25/50lbs (1/3 cu ft). Hot borax? HAH! <grin>
The ramable is supposed to fire to a rigid but non-chipping/cracking
finish, it's supposed to be almost as tough as concrete at heat and very
abrasion resistant.
This stuff isn't even close to their high end refractories either, they
were out of the 3,300f castable I would rather have used but they had a
good supply of 4,300f firebrick, all the Kaowool products and lot's
more.
Just thought you'd like to know. <grin>
Frosty
************
Doug, I cast the roof of my forge (2" thick by 12" x 20")
with a refractory cement called LITECAST 50/25
which I obtained from UNITED WESTERN SUPPLY (UNI-WEST)
4401 E 46th Ave, DENVER CO 80216. Fax 303-388-0922
Tel 303-388-1224
It worked very well for me.
Amos
************
Subject: Re: Fire Brick Use in Forging
Kallen Jenne or Naiara Junqueira wrote:
> I'm was wondering whether you can use fire brick in forge construction
> instead of refractory brick. I had two thoughts on this: 1) what kind of
> heat can fire brick take naturally and 2) can you coat it with some type of
> refractory coating to increase it's value in the forge?
> Anyone have any thoughts or experience in this matter?
> Kallen
There is a product the I use for lining the forge called Super-G.
It is a refractory clay available in 100 # box from A.P.Green for
around $ 35.00. It has been replaced by a new but similar product
but I do not have the number/name of the new one.
To use the clay, break off a chunk, place it on your forge and with
a hammer pound it down until it is layered about 3/4" to 1-1/2"
thick. I recommend not lining the firepot but so the rest of the
forge.
After the forge is covered build a fire on the new clay using
charcol briquetts. Spread the fire over all the new clay and let
the charcol burn until exhausted. It is now ready to use.
One word of caution. Keep the forge out of the rain. Rain or
constant soaking will cause the refractory to disolve and break
down. Mine has been used for about 5 years now.
Hope it helps.
Doug
To all of you out there who have tried to use theforge
archives, I have compiled a few notes that may help you
get there from wherever you are. The instructions from the
forge itself are not exactly clear and then are written
for those who are UNIX versed, so I thought maybe a little
"Archives for Beginners" would help us all out a bit.
Theforge archives can be accessed by any subscriber to the
forge. Since theforge is a public archive, you don't need
to use a password for simple searches. This simplifies the
command line that you need to send.
There are really only five commands you can send to the
archive as a user:
index --> gets a list of all the files in theforge archive.
The list is not very creative, but is easy to understand:
There is one file for each month's worth of e-mails
and the names of the files are in this form:
log9612 --> e-mails from December, 1996
log9703 --> e-mails from March, 1997
log9511 --> e-mails from November, 1995
(see the pattern?)
These files are often quite large (between 1 and 2 megabytes)
and contain all the e-mails for that month that went
through the forge.
get -->actually gets a selected file from the archive and
delivers it to you in pieces of about 70kb via e-mail.
the 1.8 megabyte file comes in about 25 separate e-mails!
search --> searches the selected archive file or all files for
lines in the file that contain the selected search
pattern. It then echoes back to you, via e-mail, a list
of the lines it found and the file that it found them in.
Unfortunately, it only sends back the single line, which
often does not give much insight into the content of the
entry itself.
fax --> like 'get', it gets a particular file and sends it
to you on a fax rather than on e-mail. (I have never personally
tried this!)
view --> like 'get' but in interactive mode, just catenates the
file on the screen. ( I haven't tried this myself either!)
The commands are USED in the following manner:
You send an e-mail to 'listproc@wugate.wustl.edu' NOTICE that this
is NOT the same place that you send mail to the forge!!! That is
'theforge@wugate.wustl.edu'. If you send these archive commands to
theforge, you will get a pleasant nastygram informing you of your
mistake.
Also, the text of the command is put in the BODY of the e-mail,
NOT in the subject entry. You can put anything you want into
the subject slot, maybe just a reminder of what you are trying
to accomplish.
INDEX
to get an index listing, which is not very glamorous
afterall, simply enter this line only
index theforge
in the BODY of your e-mail.
You will soon get back a list from the forge of all the
files that you can download or search in the form
described above (like I said it is not very glamorous!)
SEARCH
If you want to search for a particular topic, you can
enter the following command in the body of the e-mail:
search theforge "pattern"
Substitute the string you want to search for for pattern.
Now here is the tricky part, if you do not know UNIX very
well or not at all:
there are several "operators" that can help
define the pattern you are searching for:
'&' - "logical and" - this allows you to search
for more than 1 pattern at the same time:
search theforge "books & clay"
searches for any LINE that contains both the word
'books' AND the word 'clay', but not necessarily
beside each other in the line.
'|' - logical or - this allows you to search
for lines that contain one or the other or both
of the entries:
search theforge "books | clay"
searches for any line that contains either books
OR clay or BOTH.
'~' - negation - allows you to exclude any line
containing that pattern: Unfortunately, I have never
been able to get the negation operator to work
properly. Perhaps if there is someone out there
that has, I can add it in here with an example.
Every time I have tried this operator, I get an
illegal message message.
('SURE', you say, 'Clear as mud' . . . Well, just
experiment a bit, what the heck!)
Anyway, you will get an e-mail back from the forge with a list
of all the 'found' lines and the file in which they are found.
Unfortunately, it only works for individual lines, which may
not give you much information. Ultimately, you will have to
download the file or 'view' it to find the answers. It DOES
help to locate significant threads that may have surfaced
in the past months.
GET
To get the file containing all the entries from the month
of May, 1997, simply enter the following line
alone in the body of your e-mail to listproc:
get theforge log9705
You will get back a series of e-mails containing the broken
up file. You may want to piece it back together.
Unfortunately, the files do not get delivered in any
particular order, so if you want to recombine them in
order, you need to search each one for the proper order
before recombining.
The nice thing about the way the files are stored on the forge
is that individuals files represent a time-block group (1 month)
rather than a topic. Once you have downloaded a particular
month, it will not be changed in the future. Eventually, you
can get the entire archive on your own disk as a reference!
This 'archives for dummies' is not an exhaustive treatment of
the archives access by users, but a tutorial in the basics and
how to get started. More detailed info can be found by sending
help
OR help archive
in the body of an e-mail to listproc (remember this is not the
same place you send the forge listings).
You will get back an e-mail with lots of good stuff about the
archive, but written for UNIX savvy users and somewhat
lacking in clarity for the uninitiated!
If I have misrepresented anything, please forgive me, given
the number of repeat questions and the references to the
archives, it seemed a prudent thing to offer a concise
tutorial to the process. If you have tried something else
that works, I will gladly add it to this file and republish!
Frederick W. Faller
> I don't know if this is what your after, but I use a product called
> "Compound-302" to clean my s/s projects after I am done with the TIG
> weld.... seems to clean up the color and aids in the finish too. >snip<
> Steve
Thanks to everybody for the info. I've been searching the net for hours,
which I rarely do, and I've learned a lot. For anyone interested, read on,
all others, move on (you've been warned)...
Now, I'm no expert, but here's what I've gathered:
Stainless steel, when ground, heated, etc, can leave iron molecules exposed
on the surface, which can begin the process of corrosion. This corrosion can
accelerate, causing serious problems in the long run.
A way to treat this problem is through stainless steel "passivation." This is
typically done in heated baths using a mixture of approximately 30% Nitric
acid and water. The problem I encountered was a lack of nitric baths in this
area large enough to dip the pieces I am producing. Nitric acid takes a while
to achieve the desired effect, so spraying the solution on was not a viable
option, as it would evaporate before fully passivating the surface.
I've just found a product (on the 'net) that the producers claim is being
used by some people as a spray-on solution. It is called CitriSurf
(1-847-854-2800), the man on the phone was very helpful. He told me this
product is a citric-based acid that works the same as nitric acid, only much
faster, thus making it possible to spray this solution on the piece. Another
benefit is that this product is much more environmentally friendly, and much
less toxic. Usual precautions of gloves, respirator, goggles, etc, are still
required.
This product was developed for use in baths as an alternative to the nitric
solution, but is much more viable as a spray-on treatment than the nitric due
to it's faster working time (about 10 minutes). It's available in 5 gal. and
55 gal. quantities, I'm getting the 5 gal. quantity, it's about $110, but
it's in concentrate form, and will make about 70 gallons. (that ought to last
me awhile!)
Once I use it, I'll report back about how it went. I guess the real test make
take a few years, so we'll see...
Usual note on this kind of letter: I have NO affiliation with this company in
any way, I won't even get a beer for telling people about it. :(
-Heath
*************
>Is Miracle Grow the same stuff as concrete cleaner?
>Someone correct me if I'm wrong-
>Miracle Grow= MuriAtic Acid, Concrete Cleaner= MurItic Acid?
>I'm interested in the descaling properties of either. How much do you use
>in a five gallon bucket for descaling?
>Thx,
>Steve
steve,
i've never used miracle grow for descaling but have used muriatic acid.
i have a rubber garbage can behind my shop about 3/4 full. it is mixed
about 1 part musiatic acid, (from the gallon containers available at any
hardware store) to about 5 parts water. pieces that will fit i just
suspend in the tub. if to big i paint the solution on, let sit about 20
minutes then rinse, and neutralixe with baking soda. i don't use this for
forged iron, just to get mill scale off plate steel prior to a rust or
patina finish.
till later
roger olsen,
*************
> Subject: Cleaning Welds
> I'm interested in methods anyone may have for cleaning hard to get to areas
> after forge welding to prevent flux residue showing up later. Thanks in
> advance.
> Dan Cruzan
Dan,
I've had good results from soaking forge welded pieces in phosphoric acid
solution. I mixed a roughly 10% acid by volume water solution. I soak pieces
for 30 - 45 minutes, then dunk them into sodium bicarbonate solution to
neutralize and then paint or whatever.
I'll read whatever other responses you get. I may see one that's easier than
mine.
Mark
CHEAP BANDSAWS: (See Page 1 also)
......I agree with David, the bandsaw is a great step up from the
power hacksaw. For $200 ( from Harbor Freight ) I've used mine
everyday for 10 years with no major problems. And if you go to:
http://www.flex.net/~7Egeotek/hmsc/index.htm
you will find plans to make a great stand for this type of saw complete
with a coolant pump and recovery system.
and you can get bi-metal blades for this type of saw (64 1/2" x 1/2")
for $13 each at a place in Mississippi named Tyler Tool Co.
601-876-2145. I went through several hundred 'carbon steel' blades
before I wised up to the bi-metal.
Dave Mudge / Magic Hammer Forge
lama@wild.net / magichammer@geocities.com
http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Park/1327
Editor for: Louisiana Metalsmiths' Association
http://www.wild.net/~lama
-----Original Message-----
From: Dr. David C. Hufford <clshuffo@ACS.EKU.EDU>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu <theforge@wugate.wustl.edu>
Date: Monday, October 13, 1997 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: Metal Band Saws/power hacksaws
>barchey@bell-labs.com wrote:
>>
>> Question:
>> Has anyone built the (Gingery Plans) power hacksaw or the band saw?
>> o Did you have to beef-up any sections etc.
>> o Does the saw perform well (rate of cut etc.)
>
>I built the Gingery power hacksaw about 4 years ago. It was a good
>learning experience as I hadn't built any sort of power equipment
>before. There are a couple of errors in the plans, which I can alert
>you to if you decide to pursue the project; and a couple of places I
>deviated from his design. With at least a 1/2 HP motor the saw performs
>well, and has the advantage of using inexpensive hardware store-variety
>12-inch blades. However, I retired the hacksaw in preference for a band
>saw (which I purchased, not built).
>
>David C. Hufford
************
Dave Mudge wrote:
> ......I agree with David, the bandsaw is a great step up from the
> power hacksaw. For $200 ( from Harbor Freight ) I've used mine
> everyday for 10 years with no major problems. And if you go to:
> http://www.flex.net/~7Egeotek/hmsc/index.htm
> you will find plans to make a great stand for this type of saw complete
> with a coolant pump and recovery system.
The url you sent is deadern a door nail. The url that works is:
http://www.flex.net/~geotek/hmsc/sawstand/sawstand.htm
Phil Rosche
Summerville, SC
GAS FORGES: (See Page 1 also)
Ralph A Kessler wrote:
> Hello to all on the Forge.
> I know that there are two types of Gas Forges.
> Does any one have a set of plans for the second type.
> RAK SC
Matt Wills in Wichita, KS has some good, proven forge designs. E-mail
him at "Blacksmith@mci2000.com"
Mike George
**************
At 04:08 PM 9/29/97 EDT, you wrote:
>I had an interesting talk with Hans Peot yesterday at Quad State 97. The
>plans for the propane forge that I had built said "based on a design by
>Hans Peot." As it turns out Mr. Peot had nothing to do with the plan for
>this particular forge and didn't seem to appreciate his name being
>associated with "that atmospheric junk." The forge that he designed is
>the one with one burner and a blower and he was adamant that this was the
>ONLY one that he had anything to do with and don't believe anything that
>you get from the net. He told me that you have no control over the
>environment inside the atmospheric models and you have complete control
>with his. Very good point.
>
>
>Jack
>jgeisler@juno.com
>
>PS: I thought that the atmospheric junk worked pretty well
>
>
If you want to see good atmospheric "junk", take a look at the Sandia Forge
(plans available from ABANA) that Robb Gunter helped design. I've seen a
lot of gas forges over the last couple of years and this past weekend I saw
my first Sandia Forge (built by Guild of Metalsmiths in MN). I was really
impressed with it's design and efficiency. Robb Gunter was using this
forge. It ran routinely at 5# pressure and he jumped the pressure to 12#
for welding. The pre-heat for the air heats the air to about 900 degrees.
That is not only a lot of recovered heat, it significantly improves the
efficiency of the forge.
The Sandia Forge is an atmospheric forge and calling it "junk" shows a lack
of knowledge of this forge. Some of the atmospherics may well be "junk",
but this one certainly isn't. After seeing it work, I'll take it and pass
on the forced air forges.
I don't know Hans Peot, but do know of him. He may be a gifted smith and
knowledgeable about a lot of things, but he is a bit off track on this.
At least that is what I think.
Dave Brown
STEEL INFORMATION: (See Volume #1 also)
CHRIS P WORSLEY wrote:
> Ron, I have made gravers by reforging Nicholson files that were no longer
> good as files. Of course, the fewer heats you take, the less carbon you
> loose. I used the gravers on zinc plates for printing, and on mild steel for decoration.
> Chris
> Alexandria, Va.
>
> On Wed, 12 Feb 1997 22:15:57 -0700 "Ron Reil" <rreil@micron.net> writes:
> > I need a small amount of ultra high carbon steel, around 130 points.
> >I need it to make up some gravers. . . .
How about using lathe tool blanks. Any good tool supply shold have them,
our local welding supply even carries them. I buy mine ad a discount
industrial tool place for about $1.50 each, and they also have them in
1/8". If you need longer than about 2.5", you could weld the tool blank
to something else for the handle end. I have some gravers that I made
from used chain saw files.
Just my thoughts as my brain thaws out from the -20 degree trip into work
today.
Otto Bacon
**************
Ron, I would try an old file first. The carbon content in old files is
very high, and certainly much cheaper than buying some specialty alloy
off someone's shelf. There is a nasty rumor that new files are case
hardened mild steel with the teeth cut into the case only. So, I would
find a really old file at the flea market or someone's junk pile. Forge
close to final shape, and carefully grind and file to final shape, harden
and temper to staw for wood, softer for metal. Rule I remember is, the
harder the material to be cut, the softer the temper color.
Bob
***************
To All,
Drill rod is typically 1.2-1.3% C depending on the manufacturer. I think that
Cartech has a web page and they should list their tool steels and
compositions.
Files are red short to a fault. They will also fall apart if they get a
little too hot. I don't think there will be a problem in a gas forge but in a
coal forge just pay attention to what you are doing.
The plain high carbon tool steels do decarburize but not as badly as you
might think. Just leave enough stock for removal after forging.
Hochewa
***************
Ron Reil wrote:
> Lee, I am a little confused about the "O" series of tool steel. Looking in
> my reference book it seems that O-1 steel will reach a maximum hardness of
> about 58 Rockwell C, tempered at 200 degrees F, while 120 point carbon
> steel will achieve about 67 Rockwell C hardness, and 130 point close to 70
> RC with the same tempering at 200 degrees. It would seem to me that the
> "O" series would not be hard enough for gravers. I am asking, since I am
> not all that knowledgeable about the letter series of steels. I know the
> "O" means oil hardening, but am I mistaken that 58 would be pretty soft for
> a graver that would be used on steel and other metals?
> Your comments would be most appreciated. Thanks.
Ron...Oil hardening tool & die steel (O-1 in this case) is (quoting from
the machinists handbook) "A low alloy tool steel with low tendency to
warpage. Used for cutting tools in applications where high heat is not
produced, such as taps and threading dies, press dies for blanking,
trimming, and forming dies in short to medium runs.
Any choice of steels is always a compromise proposition. You are
balancing hardness, toughness, ease of machining, resistance to warpage
during heat treat, cost, etc.
O-1 is a relatively inexpensive tool steel with properties that should
meet your criteria. There are better choices out there, but may not be
readily available inexpensively.
Enjoy the hunt.
Lee Marshall
Bonny Doon Engineering http://www.bonnydoonengineering.com
**************
Ron,
I did find at least one source for 100 point steel. Crucible Service
Centers (www.crucibleservice.com) has AISI 52100 steel. A lot of the other
suggestions sound a lot better than trying to buy small quantities of steel
from any supplier, though.
I also located a suppler of alloy and tool steels closer to you neck of the
woods. Pacific Machinery & Tool Steel is in Portland, OR. (800) 547-1091. I
did not make a note of their URL, however. :-( They have plow and spring
steels and various A, O and S steels.
Keith
*****************
Ron,
I have made gravers and chisels for carving metal from both O1 and
W1 tool steel they are both about .1% carbon. They work well for this
purpous. Ron you were wanting a higher carbon content but I think that you
will find that the higher carbon content will make the tools too brittle
and they will break in use. Even with the O1 and W1 steels I temper the
tool after hardening to a pale straw yellow this will reduce the tendency
to shatter in use. If you realy need harder tools then you need colbalt
alloy tool steel or other alloy steel . These are very hard to heat treat
without special equipment if you want to get the advertised hardness of
these special alloys. So I would start with O1 and W1 both of which are
sold as drill rod by most tool and machinery supply houses (Reid, Rutland,
McMaster-Carr).
Jim
http://www.mokume-gane.com
***************
> > I need a small amount of ultra high carbon steel, around 130 points. I
> > need it to make up some gravers for engraving work. Ideally it would be
> > about 1/4 inch in cross section, but I can draw it down if its bigger, but
> > not much bigger. <grin> If you have anything like that laying around
> > collecting dust, or know a source for it, I would appreciate knowing about
> > it.
>
> Try www.metalmart.com they have a wide variety of metals and sell by the
> inch. Reasonable rates and no cutting charge.
>
> Doug Couts >>
>
> Don't bother with metalmart. They do not have any high carbon steel alloys
> at all. The highest carbon content of their alloys was about 45 points.
>
> Keith
Try a place called Metal Supermarkets. Their ad claims that they can
get whatever you want. I figured I would try them out.
I called in the morning asking for a 3' piece of rectangular S7,
1/2"x1". Not a huge order! That afternoon, they called me back with a
price of $31.32 plus shipping. I ended up buying a 12' piece of it for
$93. This works out to $4.42/pound, which is not a bad price for
rectangular S7.
Please note that these prices include a 15% discount for first time
customers.
Metal Supermarkets
Chicago
1675 Tonne Road
Elk Grove, IL 60007
1-888-metal01
Atlanta
184 Selig Drive
Atlanta, GA 30336
1-888-metalnu
Their ad lists many shapes of aluminum, stainless, brass, copper,
carbon steel, tool steel, bearing bronze, alloy bar. They also
(appropriately) say things like "sick of paying high prices for small
quantities? tired of meeting minimum orders?".
Steven O. Smith
steve@cc.com
****************
At 01:24 PM 2/14/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Does anyone know the carbon content of your standard, fluted concrete
>nails? I've been using them to make engraving chisels (which work
>great, incidentally), but I don't know the percent(points) of carbon
>they contain.
>David C. Hufford
I don't know the carbon content, but they certainly do make good engraving
tools. We had a demonstration of this at the November meeting of UMBA.
While I've never tried it, what I saw worked great. And, the price is right.
Dave Brown
****************
KeithSnook@aol.com wrote:
> Ron,
> I did find at least one source for 100 point steel. Crucible Service
> Centers (www.crucibleservice.com) has AISI 52100 steel. A lot of the other
> suggestions sound a lot better than trying to buy small quantities of steel
> from any supplier, though.
>
> I also located a suppler of alloy and tool steels closer to you neck of the
> woods. Pacific Machinery & Tool Steel is in Portland, OR. (800) 547-1091. I
> did not make a note of their URL, however. :-( They have plow and spring
> steels and various A, O and S steels.
> Keith
You can get 52100 steel from roller bearing races. And the ball bearings
for that matter.
Clint
****************
Ron...
I've just done what you're hesitant to do over the years..Actually I've
been turned onto old equipment that's just out in a field or scrap heaps that
are on old homesteads. Seems most of such stuff doesn't ever find its way
to the scrap yards unless the farm has been bought by a non-farmer/rancher
who just wants to clean up. Keep your eyes peeled on back roads. One
warning is that the conveyor steel rods are almost always still intact and
thus are linked together and are very heavy to move unless you take the
time to "unlink" them or have a cutting torch to cut them into managable
sections to move. Good luck
Barry... Twisp, Wa.
****************
In a message dated 97-02-13 08:52:07 EST, you write:
<< I need a small amount of ultra high carbon steel, around 130 points. >>
W1 tool steel can have up to that amount or more, but is usually in the
.80/.90 range. If you check W1 or "water hardening" DRILL ROD, you find that
the carbon is much higher, around the 1.05 to 1.25 range. Ask for mill
certifications, they will have them.
Mike Schermerhorn
***************
<< Does anyone know what kind of steel is use in fork lift tangs
It must be something good!! I have one that is about 2"X 4"X 4'+
E-YA, GBH... :-) >>
I had a customer bring one in that he had bent. He wanted me to straighten
and retemper it. When I called the forklift manufacturer, they said that the
tang was made out of 1045.
Keith
*************
I would suspect that if the stainless and was used in the food
processing industry it is probably a "mild" stainless and is not
hardenable. There are stainless steels that harden and are a favourite
of todays knife makers. Namely ATS34 and 440C. these are usually air
hardened. I really don't think that a stainless would make good punches
and chisles.
You would be better off trying old struts from the auto industry. These
are often an "S" ( shock resistant )type steel and harden into some
dandy punches and chisels.
Stainless also doesn't fare too well in a coal forge as it soaks up the
sulfer gases produced thereby ruining the steel.
I have forged some ATS34, not into punches but rather into a hook. Just
had to try. It is "Red Hard" ( doesn't move too well even into orange
) It also retains a lot of stiffness and is difficult to shape. Be
carefull not to get it too hot or it does "red short"...
Wayne Hirkala..
*************
>Talked to the highway dept. grader driver and he said , "If the edge of the
>blade has a burr on the edge that is in contact with the ground, it is of
>high carbon plow steel. If it is rounded, it is a high tungston ,chrome
>steel." I made a knife out of the tungston stuff and it lost its fine cutting
>edge after only a few cuts, then wore the slightly rounded edge through
>anything I could throw at it. A metalurgist friend of miine told me that it
>is its nature, do to the tungston.
> Steve Rollert
My steel supplier sells grader blades in varying sizes. They call it "cut
edge". It is 1045.
Bob Schade
**************
In a message dated 97-05-15 00:27:35 EDT, you write:
<< This would be directed more to Steve Rollert. Myself a novice in knife
making, I read all sorts of articles by master knifesmiths who make thier
wares from exotic materials such as D2, A2, L6, AST34, etc, etc, & and so on.
My experience as a diemaker ( actually die maintenance ) has shown me that
most of these materials are expensive, difficult to heat-treat properly, and
once sharpened do have an extremely good edge. However, once chipped or worn,
is very hard to hone back to a sharp edge. They would be OK for a
presentation piece or show piece. But I would think that if you were going to
make a good utility/hunting knife, you would want a good tough material such
as 1065,1080,1095, 5160 and the like.
I also need to find some of these knife making classes in my area.
Presently, I don't have the time to take off of work to attend some of them.
I suppose I'll have to break down and buy a few good knife making books. And
I appreciate the hint on the hint on making the cutler hammers from a rail
spike hammer. Now my only problem will be to find one of those.
Steve Rabuck
>>
With the proper heat treat and temper the "exotic" steels as you put it will
hold up very well under normal use. If you chip an edge, you are abusing the
knife, period. You are right that it will be difficult to resharpen these
materials, but the amazing increase in cutting ability is well worth it. The
other tool steels you mention also make good knives, no question about that.
One of the main considerations when choosing the steel to make a knife out
of is what the knife will be used for, and what type of person will be using it.
If you don't already have it, "The Complete Bladesmith" by Jim Hrisoulas
should be required reading material for all budding knifemakers IMHO.
Dan
***************
Many leaf springs are 5160, some are 1060-1080 hi carbon steel. All of these
are considered low allow steels and can be annealed by heating to a uniform
dull red color and packing in vermiculite or wood ashes or powdered lime and
letting it slowly cool down overnight.
Heat treat by quenching from a red to red-orange color in oil (30 wt motor oil
will work). For these steels you can verify you are at the right temperature
by checking the hot steel with a magnet, when the magnet won't stick anymore
you are hot enough. Then temper in an oven at 350-450 degrees for 20-30
minutes three times with an air cool in between each temper session. The
higher the temper temperature the softer the tool will be.
Use a file to check the hardness, after the initial quench and before tempering
the file should skate accross the surface of the steel without biting in.
After tempering it should just barely bite in. How hard you leave it after
tempering depends on how it will be used.
Joe
*************
Experts of the list...
And compared to me the rest of you are just that. Want to start out
today by thanking everyone for being such a great group of people,
I've learned more lately then I can ever hope to keep in my limited
little mind (especially whilst trying to pass College Physics).
Anyway, my question (seems I have only questions and never advice.
The guy who is getting some scrap steel from a spring place for me
brought me a phamplet that they handed out during one of their
mandatory classes. It lists the steel that they use. Some of the
steel types I have never seen before so I thought that I would ask you
guys and see what you had to say. Here is the list
SUP 6 - mainly contains silicon, which raises the elastic limit; and
manganese, which improves hardenability
SUP7
7 - contains more silicon than SUP6. Silicon raises the elastic
limit and helps the spring risist permanent set. Care must be taken
with its use because it makes the spring more susceptible to
decarbonization.
SUP 9A (5160M) - Manganese and chrome are added to increase
hardenability so that it can be used for items which are thicker than
the ones using SUP6 and SUP7.
SUP 10 - Chrome and vanadium steel improves hardenability and
toughness for springs which will undergo great stress
SUP 11A - boron has been introdued to provide better hardenability
than that of SUP9A. It can be used with thicker springs than those
made with SUP9A.
SUP 12V (SRS-60) - Chrome and vanadium have been added to SUP6,
prividing great resistance to permanent set throught refining of
crystal grains.
SUP7 OTW - Materials with components of SUP7 are preheated (tempering
and cooled (quenching). (This doesn't makes sense to me, the order
that is, and I am assuming that the terms are are not right, switched
or I don't know what I am talking about. The phamplet goes on to talk
about the structures involved in heat treating, gives temperature
versus time charts which show grain structure, etc. so I am baffled by
this.)
ND 250S - Hass a lesser amount of carbon than other spring steels.
Nickel, molybdenum and vanadium have been added to it, making it
harder than previous springs. It can be used under high stress
conditions.
The list of things that they are used for is as follows:
SUP6 - Leaf Springs
SUP7 - Coil Springs
SUP9A (5160M) - leaf, coil radius rods, torsion bars, solid
stabilizers
SUP10 - Leaf Springs
SUP11A - Leaf Springs
SUP12V (SRS-60) - Coil Springs, Torsion bars
SUP7 OTW-D - Cold formed coil springs
S45C - Induction hardened torsion bars
S48C - Sold stabilizers
ND25OS - Coil springs
They also list ASB25N which is a seam welded pipe containing boron to
improve hardenability for water quenching. This hollow stock is used
for stabilizers.
I know what 5160 is and I am assuming that 5160M is for the manganese,
am I right? If nothing else this kinds gives a really clear picture
of what kind of stock modern springs (including many foreign cards to
include Honda and Nissan as this company is making springs for lots of
cars) are made out of. Hope that this isn't repetative and if anyone
can clue me in on what this SUP stands for and what types of steels
these are I'd appreciate it.
Thanks,
Robert
I visited a metalworkers shop yesterday and was shown a fine looking
treadle hammer. It has excellent craftmanship, finish, and balance with a
leaf spring system. A fine tuning wheel adjust it. This hammer is 125 lb.
and cost $1000. So I called the guy, Cliff Yeary, that builds them and I
hope to have a picture soon. He is building another design that he says is
much improved! The new one is 130 lb. and cost $1200. He is trying to get
his hand drawn plans and operating manual on a computer. Cliff said that
hammer construction turnaround is about three days now. Possibly will sell
the plans, and he mentioned making some tooling such as dies, swage block,
etc., also. With his permission, I'm posting his name, address (no email
yet):
Cliff Yeary
*************
The Sheppard hammer uses a "rocker arm" type mechanism and the ram moves
vertically; the Spencer-style hammer uses a "swing arm" type mechanism
and the ram moves in an arc. In my experience, the Sheppard hammer has
less "snap" and more force of impact is transmitted back to your foot
via the direct linkage of the design. The only other disadvantage of
the Sheppard hammer is the more limited clearance between the ram and
the anvil; however, I haven't found that to be a problem in my work.
The Sheppard hammer is more compact, and the vertical path of the ram
negates the need for adjustment for different size stock or workpieces.
I've had a Sheppard (Tick Creek Forge) hammer for two years and been
very pleased with it. The only improvement I could suggest is use of a
solid anvil post rather than the tube-filled-with-concrete anvil post
which mine has.
*************
Is this the hammer that uses 4 springs in the back,
if so I have all the drawings.
Mike wolfe 313-668-0404
At 07:35 PM 5/11/97 +0000, you wrote:
>in the anvil's ring vol. 24 no. 2 pg. 16there is a picture of a
>treadle style hammer. i have been told that it is called a 'big lick
>hammer .' is this correct? i am interested in building said hammer
>and would like to know if plans are available for this design.
>any help would be greatly appreciated thanks in advance
>daniel-waxing moon forge
*************
Daniel,
The "Big Lick" treadle hammer is built snd sold by Richard Sheppard, Tick
Creek Forge in Bruceton Mills, W. Va. Shop phone 304-379-7450. I don't
know if the plans are available, you"ll have to check with him.
Chris
On Sun, 11 May 1997 19:35:29 +0000 "Daniel" writes:
>in the anvil's ring vol. 24 no. 2 pg. 16there is a picture of a
>treadle style hammer. i have been told that it is called a 'big lick
>hammer .' is this correct? i am interested in building said hammer
>and would like to know if plans are available for this design.
>any help would be greatly appreciated thanks in advance
>daniel-waxing moon forge
***********
Always the heretic, I'd like to weigh in on treadle hammer anvils....
I have built a few treadle hammers. I use two currently, one in the shop
and one demonstrating. Both have hollow columns. I have never found the
lack of weight to be the slightest issue. I have found that regardless of
weight, having used just about every type around in demos that I have flown
to (no treadle hammer fits the overhead luggage compartment), that they do
need to be bolted down. I have also found a distinct advantage to the (4")
square tube (1/4" wall) column left empty....you can drift through a slit
hole. I have cut an opening in the side and put an angled piece of plate
about 10" below the bottom plate. This allows a drift to pass through and
out of the tube column into a bucket of water. In 10 years of almost
daily use there has been no deformation of the tube wall. In as many years
of demonstrating on other types I have not noticed a disadvantage in the
lack of 'anvil' weight.
I also have the original ABANA plan springs on all of the ones I have
built. They are 8 smaller-wire type springs that are very easy to extend
on the downstroke and they give a quick return. An advantage of this
approach is the rapidity of stroke, for layout and fast multiple passes as
well as the fact that less effort is needed to extend those springs in
general to make a blow. All the spring does is return the head to the
upright position so a stiff, heavy spring can make the work more tiring
and the hammer less responsive as you work to overcome the heavier
spring(s). The light action of the hammers I use can be illustrated by the
fact that I can do layout chisel cuts, incising and repousse' just flexing
my ankle. A full stomp moves the head very fast, thus imparting a lot of
energy through the tooling into the stock for splitting and fullering. The
head weight is about 85lb.
The springs lifting head of the treadle hammer should allow it to float
just enough to raise it into the starting position, any more 'lift' is
simply more to overcome on the leg operated down stroke. The head should
be at a balance where the spring overcomes the head-weight and no more.
Head weight and velocity (overcoming the springs lift) of that head gives
the hammer its heavy swat.
George Dixon
*************
James P. Ryan wrote:
>Anybody have a online picture of a treadle hammer?
>I have never seen one and just can't get a grasp of it.
I haven't seen one online, but you could call Jere Kirkpatrick,
800-367-5373. He has a flyer with a photo of one. He sells kits for $625,
and of course numerous other items like tapes and books. His company is
Valley Forge and Welding, open 8 am - 5 pm Pacific time.
David
************
Dear Ron;
Glad to hear from you. I do not sell plans for the "Big Lick". The
hammer sells for 1050.00 dollars + tax (if any), and shipping. I deliver
them if you are fairly close. I am also beginning to take orders and sell
tools I have made specifically for use with the treadle hammer. If you
would give me your address, I would be glad to send you a flier on the
hammer. Have a great summer.
Yours in Smithing,
Richard N. Sheppard
Tick Creek Forge
P.O. Box 146
Bruceton Mills, WV 26525
Ph. (304) 379-2807 office
(304) 379-7450 home
*************
Ron,
>I didn't know about the possible power upgrade to the hammer. That is
>worth knowing about.
>I still do not know the weight of the hammer, but I assume it is
>about 65 pounds like the other designs.
Checked my notes & didn't see that but I remember it being in the 60-80 lb
range.
>Just looking at the foggy image I have of it really looks like a fine >unit.
I had planned to bring a camera to the event & left it home on the counter.
>It also looks, although I could be in error, that it may be a little >more
compact than other designs.
Yes it is. Richard brought 7 out west dropped one off in Spokane & sold 6
at the event.
> I have no doubt that it would put me light years ahead of where I
>am now on capability to work heavy sections, especially with both hands
>on the work.
The hammer does good heavy blows but remarkably can do som very fine light
work as well.
>If you think of any thing else about the hammer I would love to hear >it.
The springs at the back have a hose around them to cut down on the noise.
The back vertical tube is filled full of sand, the front one the anvil
rests on is sand about half way & then concrete. The anvil comes with it's
own ...I guess hardy hole..which has a tapped screw into the side so the
tool won't slip. It comes with an optional 1" thick round plate that slips
into the hole to do work on....whcih also has an ofset hardy hole for
helper tools.
The head slides inside a another square tube, about 5-6", which also has
the sides tapped for a screw fitting in which a silicon bushing sits (3
sides) which helps the head move smoothly without any problems. The unit
itself weighs about 550 lbs & has a fairly small foot print. they were
using them on top of 3/4" ply over the dirt so they are very stable when
using them.
Hope that helps....
Bob Miller
************
Dave B. wrote:
> Is there anyone on this list who has experience with one of richard
> Sheppard's "Big "Lick" treadle hammers?
I purchased one of Richard Sheppard's Tick Creek Forge treadle hammers
from the first batch he made. I've been very pleased with it. The
major advantage is the the vertical motion of the ram, which negates any
adjustment for work piece/tooling size. It is a very compact design
and, in my opinion, well made. The disadvantage of the vertical motion
ram is the fixed and limited clearance between ram and anvil, which is
about 11 inches on my model; tooling height needs to be kept to a
minimum to allow for maximum travel of the ram. Also, the rocker-arm
type linkage between treadle and ram seems to transmit more impact shock
back to the operator's foot/leg, but this has not proven to be of
consequence in my experience. In addition, I feel the Sheppard hammer
has less "snap" to the blows than the Spencer-type/swing arm hammer;
however, with an 80+ lb ram, the hammer delivers sufficient force for
most purposes.
************
>Roger,What are the functions you use the treadle hammer most for? I have a
>power hammer and am collecting the parts for a kinyon air hammer. I have
>only begun to think on treadle hammers as I haven't even seen one
>yet..........sheltered life heh? Ralph
>Ralph Sproul
Lately I've been using it for "step over" forgings. I've just finished
ironing a house with step overs being a part of the theme, they were used
on fireplace doors, mirror and picture frames, and some trim work. I made
a top and bottom form and used the Big Lick for the forging. It worked
great. I also am amazed how often I am going to it for a quick "flatter
run" across a piece of iron to level it up. I have a flatter that lives
just next to the Big Lick. This use may be more important to me than
others as my 260 lb Peter Wright has about a 3/32 nd saddle in it.
I also use it for top working iron, you know that kind of work that is
somewhat akin to leatherworking, I have about 3 coffee cans full of
different top tools for surface work.
This is just a small sampling of what it can do, and these are all examples
of procedures I would not or could not do under a power hammer. I am
looking forward to seeing a video of Clay Spencer demonstrating on the uses
of a treadle hammer. I am sure it will enlighten me further. I ordered
the tape from:
http://www.artisticiron.com
An outlet for Blacksmith products & video tapes. I have not received tyhem yet.
Till later,
Roger Olsen
*************
Dear Ron;
Sorry I have not gotten back to you sooner. I have been very busy,
but also have had some computer problems!!!!
As for the hammer, I am not currently planning any trips out west.
I may be in the midwest (Missouri), at the next conferance there.
Otherwise, I am not sure. If you want a hammer, we might be able to arrange
something with a carrier going your direction that would not be so
expensive. I'll keep checking and maybe so can you.
As to tools. I am currently making a 12 piece set, (6 sets of 2
each), which sells for 149.95 plus shipping. I accept Master Card and Visa.
Was great hearing from you and hope all is well with you and yours.
Happy Smithing
Richard N. Sheppard
HYDRAULIC PRESSES: (See Volume #1 also)
I finally finished the hydraulic press that I started back in January. It
has 15" platens with a post guided die set for holding coining and other
types of dies. I built all of the innards first so as to make absolutely
sure that there would be plenty of daylight available. It has a 50 ton
cylinder with a 6" stroke and an electric pump system.
Taking advice from AM I used the 7018 rod and probably have over 60 linear
inches of weld on each corner of the press.
I love it. Now I just have to figure out what color to paint it and build a
steel table to hold this monster.
Thank you Lee, Frosty, Valerie and everyone else who helped me with this
project.
Kenneth Gastineau
gastin@mis.net
*************
>> Steve, I strongly suggest you communicate with Lee Marshall about hydraulic
>> press requirements for forge work. It is not worth "poor boying" it in the
>> press department. They have to be very powerful, but also very fast, and
>Thanks, I've stared a lot at Lee's web page. Good stuff, but he is
>selling finished presses--hardly fair to ask him for free advice about
>building my own!
>Batson's plans are far from poor boying it. He's designed around a 5",
>24 ton cylinder, 1-2" per second travel (2-5HP), severely overdesigned
>C frame (reinforced 14" web, 38lb/ft I beam..).
>Steven O. Smith
>Fort Collins, Colorado
>Steven.O.Smith@nsc.com
>
>
To all those interested:
The basic rule of thumb is: 1hp= 1gal-min@1500psi
This rule applies to electric motors.
other rules that follow from this one are:
1 electric motor hp= 1 1/2 hydraulic motor hp
1 gasoline engine hp= 2/3 hydraulic motor hp
1 hydraulic motor hp= 1 2/3 gasoline engine hp
1 hydraulic motor hp= 2/3 electric motor hp
1 electric motor hp= 2 1/2 gasoline engine hp
and I'll bet you thought a hp was a hp ...........hah! but from
this you should be able to figure your needs. The other thing to figure is
the cubic inches in a gallon
I think the 38lb/ft I beam is a good idea for a 24 ton ram.That
is alot of power. You could easily bend 2" schedule 40...........(cold!) so
think what you could do hot!.........next step is to think about lifting it.
Hydraulics are great! Ralph
Ralph Sproul
Bear Hill Blacksmith
>George, where can a fly press be obtained today? Are they available
>anyplace in the US?
Used machinery dealers in the north east, Rhode Island (a hot-bed of fly
presses) and Mass. for example, often have them. Look for triple-lead
screw type presses, they have more travel vertically per rotation of the
screw so they are faster in cycle for hot work. A yellow page search of
larger cities up there would probably produce leads.
One approach that served Tal Harris, Pres NC ABANA, was to look in the
Thomas Register at companies which were both in the press using industry
and were old. Many he called had old presses still around but unused since
hydraulics came along.
George
*************
>George, where can a fly press be obtained today? Are they available
>anyplace in the US?
>
> Ron
>
Jim Bomba had some a while back.
P O Drawer C, North East, MD, 21901, 410-287-7851
Clay
***********
Greetings,
I use a fly press for various tasks in architectural scale forge work. The
fly-press is best analogized as a mechanical version of a hydraulic press.
The ones I have take 1" round shank tooling in the end of the ram. This
allows chisels and drifts to be made for slit-and-drift operations.
Slitting a 3/4" thick bar is a one heat operation with the larger one.
Drifting holes for 1" bars is also a one heat event.
The next job calls for English Half-penny snub end scrolls. The press is
being tooled to isolate the material for the snub-end and start the taper
of the scroll in one operation. The snub end will still be hand forged on
a snub end tool, but the blank with taper will save at least 2 weeks of
prep-forging.
Bends, both curved into swages and square into V-blocks can be done with ease.
Straightening forged bars, using a flat faced plate on the end of the ram,
is very quick work. I hand reforge every inch of every bar before a rail
is started, so there is a lot of straightening. 5/8" X 2" or 3/4" X 1
1/4" bars are no problem. And it goes fast.
Offset bends are a breeze, the tooling is simple. One thing I like about a
fly press is that you can feel the effect as it happens since you are
actuating the thrust by hand. There is less (almost no) chance of applying
too much pressure. The cycle time is also much faster than a hydraulic
press.
All manners of set tool work can be done on the fly press.
George Dixon
Ron R. wrote:
> It looks like you have lots of advice on the anvil so I will comment on the
> bits. I have both a post drill, and a drill press that I built patterned
> after some of the presses that predate post drills. it uses a brace driven
> with a big ACME screw. I use the "spade bits" in it and I simply make them
> myself.
Ron, could you post a picture of this, please? I have a mental picture
of what's going on, but figure it's not quite right.
I second your notion of making your own bits. Some years ago I used to
teach jewelry making. (Patience please, there really is some
blacksmithing coming up here.)
Jewelers do a lot of pierced work. That is, drill a little hole, thread
the jeweler's saw blade through, saw an interior shape, remove the blade
and repeat until the piece is sawn to shape. A jeweler's saw is tiny.
Shapes are small. This means a small drill (say a #60 or so). 20 years
ago, a #60 drill cost about 80 cents, buying one at a time.
Students tend to break LOTS of these bits. For a while, I simply told
them to supply their own, figuring that they'd be more careful. Finally
I realized that most of them were simply learning fine motor control in
their hands and fingers, and were physically incapable of the control
necessary to work at that scale. I added a demonstration to my teaching
cirriculum -- making tiny drills. Here's about how it goes:
Required components:
Sewing needle
Alcohol lamp
3-in-one oil
Pliers
File
Jeweler's bench block (polished steel)
Jeweler's hammer (chasing hammer OK, I prefer rivetting hammer)
1. Light the acohol lamp. Have the bench block next to the lamp.
2. Holding the needle by the eye in the pliers, heat the tip to red
hot in the flame of the lamp.
3. Forge it flat on the bench block. (if you can't do this in one
heat, you're moving too slow between heating and hammering.)
4. Let the needle air cool.
5. File the flattened tip of needle to the diameter of the hole and
shape the tip to a spade bit shape. Angle of filing creates the
relief for the cutting edges.
6. Prepare a quenching container (I often used a soft drink bottle cap)
and put some 3-in-one oil in it.
7. Heat the point to red hot and quench in oil before it loses color.
8. Come right out of the oil and hold it in the alcohol lamp flame just
long enough to ignite the oil. Pull it back and let the oil burn
itself out. This draws the temper to just about the right point.
This little demo was really an eye opener to a lot of students. The
look on their faces when they could see two little curls of metal coming
off the point of their drill was amizing.
Morgan Hall
***********
Hello All,
The neat thing about these triangular holes is that if you use calipers or
a telescope gage to measure them with, they will measure the correct
dimension all the way around. This is one reason why in addition to a good
finish, precise holes are usually reamed or bored on a lathe. Any two
fluted drill which is used to drill a hole without a pilot hole will do
this to a certain degree. The higher the tool pressure the greater the
effect. If you are looking for cheap reamers for round holes try a D-bit
reamer. You make them yourself from drill rod. There is a book called the
Machinist's Bedside Reader written by Guy Lautard which is full of good
stuff like D-bit reamers and other types of neat tooling ideas. How about
using milk as a tapping lube for copper? It's in there!
Matt
----------
> From: Frost, Jerry
> Subject: Re: Drill Bits
> Fred Clark wrote:
> > If you grind it too steep you will
> > >find that you can drill a perfect triangular hole, but not a round one!
> >
> > Ron, I hate to be the only one to bite on this, but ...a TRIANGULAR hole??
> >
> > Fred
>
> That's right, triangular. Of course the corners are rounded but the hole
> comes out triangular none-the-less. Other factors can achieve the effect
> too, such as uneven bevels or cutting faces so If you're freehand
> sharpening your own, it pays to buy a gage and practice.
> Frosty
ANVILS AND ANVIL REPAIR: (See also Volume #1)
From: Matt Balent/HCS/CSC on 02/06/97 07:23 AM
I used 'super missile' rod from Arco after a 400 degree pre-heat.
Make sure you use some sort of heat sink on the surface or you
could lose temper.
Been using the anvil for over a year now with no problems.
- Matt
**************
I recently repaired some fairly serious damage on mine by preheating to
400 degrees and welding with a hard facing rod ( 6700 from UTP.) I
wouldn't skip the pre-heat, I think you could get some cracks without it.
Mine seems to be working well.
My .02 worth
Jack Geisler
jgeisler@juno.com
(BCS Jerry Boyd) writes:
>I have been using an anvil for several years that had been abused
>some.
>There are a few arc marks and gouges from a cutting torch that I try
>to
>work around. Can I fill these gouges up with an arc welder and file
>smooth without hurting the hard surface? Should I just mill the face
>down below the depth of the gouges?
*************
> I have an anvil that has been passed down to me through several
> generations. From the stand point of appearance it is in great shape.
> But the function ability of it is limited due to the hard surface that
> is about 1/2" thick being loose. Does anyone offer a repair service (or
> know someone that does) to repair this anvil to its original condition by
> means of the original method of attachment
> Kirk T
Kirk,
I saved the stuff below from a previous discussion. Also included is
something that just came across rec.crafts.metalworking news which
might be of interest. Ernie makes anvils from plate.
Steven O. Smith
steve@cc.com
Subject: Re: Repairing anvils
I have gone to the trouble of repairing several anvils by welding on new
plates. It does not take as much time as you might think, but several things
make life easier.
Although I've used truck springs for the plate with success, I also had one
fail miserably. Maybe it was work or weld stressed or maybe it was
overheated before quenched, but it cracked horribly and had to be rewelded.
Conversely, I've had several work out well.
The only time I would recommend this process is to restore extensive damage
on large anvils that are worth the time. The basic procedure is to gouge off
the remnants of the old plate and "V" the top of the anvil to provide a root
for the welding. Drill/cut the hardie and pritchel holes in the new plate
with drill/torch/die grinder to match existing holes. Make sure the plate is
stress relieved before welding. Tack it squarely in place and preheat to
about 300-400 F. Weld from the center out and fill the entire root until
there is a protruding bead that can be ground flush without leaving traces of
the weld (undercuts, puddles, etc.) I either use a MIG or an E6011 rod and
don't clean the welds - I just weld right over each pass (you can't do this
with rods that leave heavy slag). Although I can't prove it, I think now
would be a good time to bring the anvil to critical temp and let it normalize
in the atmosphere, but I have hardened several without taking this extra
step. However, the cracking incident has made me wary.
The forge I made to heat anvils is a piece of plate, 3'x3'x1/4", set on 3
legs (I'm lazy) with a slot cut in the plate about 1/2" wide and as long as
the anvil face. There is a long piece of square tubing welded to the bottom
of the plate as a tuyere. The fuel is coal and the air can be a manual or
electric blower. I make a collar encircling the anvil's waist with 1-1/4"
pipe arms sticking out to allow manipulation and so a piece of 1" pipe will
slip fit. Two men can handle a 300 lb anvil in this manner without too much
trouble. Personally, I use a tractor with gin pole to pick it up with the
3-point or you could also use a hoist. You must also provide some method of
supporting the anvil while it heats - I make two simple "A"frames, welded to
the plate which hold the pipe so the anvil is about 2-3" above the slot. The
fire is started first and when it is going over the full length of the slot,
the anvil is put in place. Pack lots of damp coal around and keep the blast
low to medium, making sure the fire does not burn hollow under the anvil.
The heel will heat up first because it is thinner, but you can usually heat
a 250 lb anvil to critical temp in about an hour. At this point, you can
either quench in a large water container (like a cattle trough) or you can
pour a continuous, heavy stream of water on the anvil face. I fill several
55-gallon open-top drums with water, say a fervent prayer and start pouring
FAST to drop the critical temp quickly. Be wary of the steam! After the
water is gone, I play a garden hose on it to finish the cooling. If it
hasn't cracked, it can now be finish ground. I don't temper and I can't say
whether it is necessary. My main "battle" anvil is a 250 lb Peter Wright
that I repaired this way and it has lasted under regular, heavy use for 10
years.
Caveats:
1. If you use scrap for the plate, do thorough testing before welding it on
- it's probably safer to buy W1 in the right size.
2. Stress relieve!
3. Don't overheat the face - not much heat is needed to get to critical
temp. Better to have a slightly softer face than a glass-hard surface which
chips.
4. Be careful!!! - this is a BIG, HOT, HEAVY piece of steel.
Work time for me to replate an average anvil is 12-16 hours - you might be
faster or slower depending on skill and initiative. I have also done
build-up work with rods - I use Certanium, but Stoody and Palco are good,
too. Don't use standard low-hydrogen rods for build-up.
A couple of years ago, I wrote a summary of this method with sketches in the
Anvil's Ring. If anybody wants further detail, you can E-mail me with
questions/comments.
hollis
From: LLiseW@aol.com
Subject: Re: Repairing anvils
Steve,
I sold Certanium rods for about 6 months (the source of my ever dwindling
supply) and the tech guys told me that low hydrogen rod does NOTHING for
carbon steel. Their reasoning was that any time you weld on carbon steel,
you get carbon embrittlement due to the dissolution of the carbon into the
weld pool. For example, say you were welding a piece of 1095 plate with
low-hy rod. You would probably get spots in the weld deposit that were .5%
and others that are over 1% creating an imbalanced structure. The party line
at Certanium was that the specialty rods are supposed to create a ductile and
homogenous weld zone. Their demo was to weld two pieces of a file
edge-to-edge without preheat, then clamp one end in a vise and beat the file
first one way and then the other. Usually, the top piece would bend 90
degrees to one side and then BACK 180 degrees. They swore that no common
rods would meet this test. All this said, I can't say with certainty that
your 9016 rods won't work. Try it and see - just make sure you pre and post
heat to minimize chilling.
From: stagesmith@earthlink.net (Ernie Leimkuhler)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: How to clean up anvil?
Date: 7 Feb 1997 03:49:27 GMT
Organization: Stagesmith Productions
> I just purchased an old 190-lb anvil. It is rusted and has some dings
> in it. I want to clean it up with a wire wheel and paint the sides.
> What is usually done to make the anvil look nice and can small dents
> in the horn be filled with my MIG 250 welder? Is the top face
> hardened and can/should it be face milled?
>
> Thanks
OK Dave
Since you have a 250 amp MIG life will be pretty easy.
Grinding the surface with a coarse 9" right angle grinder will help true
it up, but to build up the edges and fill holes you will need to lay down
some hardface.
If you were stick welding then you would need to go through the usual
rigamarol of preheating to 400 deg F and allowing it to slow cool.
Since you have a MIG life will be much easier. Rankin makes several
hardfacing wire products that work wonderfully.
For general buildup I use Rankin BBG ( rockwell C47 ) , and for the final
surface I use Rankin DDG ( rockwell C56 ).
The wires come in .045" and .065", but the you will only be able to run
the .045" in a 250 amp MIG, since .065" wire requires about 350 amps.
The Rankin hardfacing wires are actually a dual-shield product. This means
that they are flux-core wires that are run with a gas sheild.
Dual-shield burns very hot so no preheat is necessary. To fill holes
first you need to gouge out the holes with the edge of a grinding wheel.
The idea is to grind out the cracks and any gunk that is wedged in the
holes. If the edges are cracked then grind them too.
Any surface that is to be hardfaced must be ground first to get rid of any
contaminants. If your anvil is cast or forged steel then you can also
hardface the horn.
If it is cast iron then you have to lay down a layer of nickle rod to act
as a buttering pass. Then lay down the hardface on top of that.
Having a hardfaced horn is really nice.
I rebuilt the face on an old trenton anvil last year and I went ahead and
hardfaced the horn while I was at it.
You will be running the MIG at almost full power, so be prepared for some
heavy welding.
Personally I love the Rankin wires and would never go back to stick rod.
The odd thing about the rankin wires is that you end up with a layer of
fllux that cools on top of the bead just like stick rod, but the flux self
ejects as it cools. So some light tapping and it falls off real clean.
Make sure to clean off the all flux before laying down a second pass to
prevent flux inclusions.
Lay down beads of about 3/4" width and make sure to weave as you go to
spread it out.
You will find that the anvil will get quite warm as you progress.
If as you grind off the added metal you find small pockets you missed,
just fill them in.
Be careful about hardfacing around the hardie hole since grinding it out
can be quite difficult. A handfile will cut the BBG wire, but the DDG is
way to hard.
It's like filing glass.
If you wanted a harder surface, they also make a hardfacing wire that has
Tungsten Carbide in it ( rockwell C62 ).
I usually paint my anvils with Hammerite and clean up any markings with a
hand chisel.
Best of luck
Ernie Leimkuhler
**************
> From: Phil Rosche <rosche@dilbert.scra.org>
> Subject: Anvil Repair
> Well, to get off some other subjects floating around theforge in the
> last couple of days, I have a couple of questions about anvil repair:
> 1. If I want to just build up the edges a little, can I weld relatively
> short beads and let them cool a little, and then weld another short
> bead, without preheating?
Yep. Just weld about an inch an stop and let it cool - or cool it
with a cup of water but be careful not to get your feet wet and
become a better ground than your cable is.
> 2. A guy this last weekend mentioned a technique for building up the
> edges. He said to clamp a piece of flat brass against the side (or top,
> depending on which side of the edge you are building up) and weld
> against it. He said you could get a relatively smooth and flat weld,
> and the weld metal would not stick to the brass.
> Has anyone done this before?
Yep. Works great. I fixed the wallowed out edges of my hardy hole
this way by using a piece of brass about 3/16" thick and 3/4" wide.
I used 7018 low hydrogen rods. They work harden a little but not
enough to become brittle. It will ding a little if you hit with the
edges of the hammer but holds up well enough as long as you don't do
any forging of cold iron on it.
Donnie Fulwood, Editor
************
Phil Rosche wrote:
> Well, to get off some other subjects floating around theforge in the
> last couple of days, I have a couple of questions about anvil repair:
> 1. If I want to just build up the edges a little, can I weld relatively
> short beads and let them cool a little, and then weld another short
> bead, without preheating?
> 2. A guy this last weekend mentioned a technique for building up the
> edges. He said to clamp a piece of flat brass against the side (or top,
> depending on which side of the edge you are building up) and weld
> against it. He said you could get a relatively smooth and flat weld,
> and the weld metal would not stick to the brass.
> Has anyone done this before?
> How thick does the brass have to be?
> Doesn't the brass melt?
> 3. What welding rods are recommended?
> Thanks,
> Phil Rosche
Phil: Copper will work better and put a spacer between the plate and
the anvil, say 16ga., so that you have a bit to grind away. You won't
need any of that if you are just welding a few inches at a time. Just be
sure that you pein your weld diligently after each 1/2 rod and then go
to the other side of the anvil for the next 1/2 rod. This might be a bit
of overkill but the start of a long weld will be quite cool by the time
you burn a whole 5/32 rod. I would use Stoody 2110 since your only
building up corners and have no room for a harder cap. Just be sure to
pein it plenty before you grind it because this is essentially a buildup
rod but it will work harden to 40 - 45 Rc in two passes. Grind the edges
of your anvil first. This is a cast steel we're talking about.
Ross
*************
> I would use Stoody 2110 since your only building up corners and have
> no room for a harder cap. Just be sure to pein it plenty before you
> grind it because this is essentially a buildup rod but it will work
> harden to 40 - 45 Rc in two passes. Grind the edges of your anvil
> first. This is a cast steel we're talking about.
> Ross
I show Stoody 1105 as a buildup rod and 2110 as a hardfacing rod. I
think that the 2110 reaches something like 53 Rc (with the 40-45 Rc
being right for 1105).
Stoody 2110 sometimes has a hard time sticking to anvils. If you are
welding to a tool steel top plate, it will probably be ok. If you are
welding to the anvil body material, watch for cracking. What I've seen
happen is that a crack can form all along the edge of the bead. If
this happens, then you need a buildup rod, such as 1105 (or maybe
preheat, or more wirebrushing..).
Preheat isn't too hard to do with a weedburner. Note that the
temperature of 400F is chosen so that you do not lose any of the
hardness in the rest of the anvil. This means that you don't need to
re-harden and temper your anvil. The Stoody rod work hardens. Don't
exceed 450F if you want to not 'lose your temper'. A welding
instructor told me that you probably only need 200-300F preheat, but I
haven't tried this. Insulate the anvil when done so it cools slowly.--
Steven O. Smith
*************
This is sure a complex subject.
I've talked with two different guys on the Stoody hotline
(800)832-4123 about rebuilding anvils. I'm convinced (was convinced
before, actually) that there are no simple answers here. I'm going to
try to summarize what I've got so far.
The procedure that works depends a lot on exactly what the composition
of your anvil steel is (as has been said here previously). The only
thing I've tried is 1105 first, 2110 on top. This works on Peter
Wright anvils. It will not work on cast iron (i.e. Vulcan), may be
likely to work on wrought body anvils like PW. This is all I can speak
of from my own experience. Before you blow a bunch of money on rod,
get a sample and see how it welds on the anvil you intend to
rebuild. A couple of years ago, I paid $3.50/lb for 1105 and $5.20/lb
for 2110. They come in 10lb. packages, so it adds up fast.
2110 rod is good at bonding dissimilar steels together. It is about 20
Rc as deposited, and can work harden into the low 50's after
substantial deformation. Abrasion resistance is good, impact
resistance is excellent. The impact resistance is why it is a good top
layer. 2110 is high in Chromium (13%), and is essentially a kind of
stainless (I think). Uses include surfacing (buildup of) roll
crushers, shear blades, shovel teeth and hammers. No limit on layers.
1105 rod is an air hardening tool steel. It is 43 Rc as welded, no
hardening needed. Bonds well to carbon and low alloy steels, not
recommended for manganese steel. Moderate abrasion and impact
resistance. LIMIT 4 layers. Uses include shovel rollers and idlers,
sprockets.
1102 is similar to 1105 but harder--54-58 Rc as welded, H12 air
hardening tool steel. Relatively new rod. Abrasion resistance
excellent, impact strength good, compressive strength high. LIMIT 1/2"
(4 layers nominal). Uses include forging dies, crane wheels, hot and
cold shear blades. Good for hot wear up to 1100F.
All three rods are AC or +/-DC. I've only used DC reverse. Note that
Stoody says that none of the rods should show any cracking if put down
on an appropriate base with sufficient preheat, contrary to a previous
letter on theforge.
The first Stoody guy I talked to said that if the 2110 cracks when put
down first (which fits my experience), then the base material is
acting as if it were a cast iron (which it is not-Peter Wright). He
said that if the 1105 welds without cracking, just use 1105, don't
bother with the 2110. The second Stoody guy said the 2110 was
definitely the stuff for a top layer due to its impact resistance.
They also said that what works works. If you have experience with an
approach that works, stay with it. A lot depends on exactly what type of
steel you are welding to, and this will vary a whole bunch from one
anvil manufacturer to another.
I end up finding his recommendation of 1105 only compelling (if it
bonds well to the base material). 1105 is cheaper for one (3.50
vs. 5.20 per pound). As for needing a harder top layer, I haven't
gotten much if any deformation out of my top layer 2110, which means
that it hasn't done much hardening-- 20Rc according to Stoody. The
limitation here is that they only recommend a maximum of 4 layers of
1105.
The second Stoody guy suggested another combination that should work
is using BuildupLH first, topped off with 2110. (Note here that I am
getting different recommendations from two different guys, both at
Stoody). This will not work on cast iron.
The conclusion I come away with is that if you don't know what will
definitely work, plan on experimenting a bit with rod samples. There
are also other specialty rod companies besides Stoody (such as
Certainium). Keep reporting your results to this forum!
Steven O. Smith
***************
Here is an anvil thread from early last year.....
Subject: Re: old anvil
Vince and all other anvil lovers,
Double check your anvil, it should read Peter Wright, England,
Warranted, although the name of the company was Peter Wright and
Sons, during the later part of othe 19th and early part of the 20th
century.
If it is Henry, you probably have a unique Anvil, for there is no mention
of a Henry Wright anvil in the literature I have. Take your anvil out in the
sun, tip it, for good lighting, and have another look. If still not sure, do a rubbing.
The "130" is the weight, 1=112, 3/4 of 112 = 84 and 0=0, The anvil weights
196 lbs.
Brief history and dating of Anvils in use before the Hay-Budden in 1886.
Before 1650, made by local smiths
1650?-1850?, made by Mouse Hole Forge in Dudley, England
1850?-1886, made by Peter Wright in England, first at Dudley
1850?-1886, made by the Wilkeyson Forge in Dudley, England, following the
Peter Wright method of the six piece then a three piece anvil (more on
these next time)
1842 OR 1843, the first Anvil was made in America by Mr. Mark Fisher, and
later produced under the name of Fisher & Norris. "Eagle" brand.
In 1864 James Chase got out his first batch of two-piece American Wrought
anvils, 12 in all.
In Sweden, the Soderfore Bruke Aktiebology, founded in 1250, sold a one
solid piece anvil in 1885, sold in American as the Paragon.
Next time more about the building up process of the Mouse Hole and Peter
Wright Anvils.
Vince Herod wrote :
> Henry Wright
> England
> Warranted
> 130
> Vince
>
Subject: Re: old anvil again
On Thu, 8 Feb 1996, chris Hubbard wrote:
> While we are on the topic of old anvils, I have one that has Arm and Hammar
> Wrought Iron on the side plus the number 85 which I assume is the weight.
>I wondered if anyone has heard of this type of anvil since I haven't seen it
> listed in the discussions so far.
Secont part of Anvils and more Anvils, but first a answer to the above.
This anvil was either forged or given a major repair job by the
Columbian Anvil & Forging Co. All their adds from 1906 to early 1920's state:
"We can repair any wrought iron anivl, and made it better and new."
In all of their adds, they do not once mention that they also sell anvils.
I assume that after a major repair job of a wrought iron anvil, they would then stamp
it with the raised Arm and Hammer, I believe enclosed in a circle. Will
check this evening and let you know on Monday.
Part 2. Quoted and paraphrased from The American Blacksmith, Oct. 1914.
Peter Wright started forging anvils somewhere around 1850, after working
for the Mouse Hole Forge in Dudley. The anvils were made up of 3 parts
(before this anvils consisted of 6 parts: two legs, body, horn,
tail and steel plate (usually consisted of three or more pieces)).
"The bottom part is formed by piling up scrap iron and welding it into a
solid mass. While still hot it is placed in a die and blocked to shape.
The whole of the upper part, including the horn and tail, are forged
in one piece from scrap iron, the greater part of the shaping being done
at the same heat at which the scrap is welded. Next the steel face is
welded on, the hardie and pritched hole punched, the tail
or heal squared and the horn finished to shape. The two pieces, base
and upper parts are welded at the waist. This is done by jumping. The two
pieces are heated in an open fire; when the welding temperature has been
reached the two ar placed in alignment under a steam hammer & a few blows
join them together. The steam hammer is then used as a vise to hold the
anvil while the edges of the weld are hammered in. The anvil is then
thrown on the floor where it can easily be turned in any position or
direction and finished, as far as forging goes, with hand tools. For
a long time the steel faces, were welded on in sections of about 6
inches in length. Sometime after the turn of the century, the whole face
was welded on in one piece, borrowed from an An American blacksmith.
Want to forge an anvil???????!!!!!!!
>From The American Blacksmith, September 1914. History of Development of
the Anvil--1, by James Cran. Evidently he had just visited the Mouse Hole
Forge in Sheffield, England and the Peter Wright Forge in Dudley, England.
For he states, "The present owners [of of the Mouse Hole Forge], Brooks &
Cooper, have run the works for upwards of 38 years, and are still making
anvils that are hard to beat ... and they operate their forge to this day
with no other power than that developoed by an old-fashioned water wheel.
The same old-fashioned helve hammer, or 'metal helve' as
it is locally termed, is still doing duty and is operated by the already
mentioned water wheel. The building itself, with its old-fashonied solid
stone walls and low arched windows and doorways, shows but slight signs
of the ravages usually worked by time, and are apparently good, barring
misfortune, for centuries to come.
Originally the Mouse Hole anvil was made up of 6 pieces by the building up
process. The corners of the base or feet, the horn and tail or heel was
welded on to a centerpiece. After this the steel face was welded on in
sections, trimmed and finished to the desired shape by hand tools. The
face was then ground and hardened and, after hardening, the face was
again ground and finished."
I have a Wilkinspon anvil, made in Dudley. It is a six piece anvil, the
horn and tail have been broken off, but it is clear that they have been
forged on to the centerpiece as have the corners of the
feet.
More next time.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Page Thomas <pthomas@post.cis.smu.edu>
Advertisements in the American Blacksmith from 1906-1915
Columbus Anvil and Forging Co., West Frankfort St., Columbus, Ohio.
"We are experts at repairing old wrought anvils. We also manufacture
the celebrated Arm and Hammer brand anvil."
Eagle Anvil Works, Trenton, New Jersey. In 1911 changed name to Fisher
& Norris, Trenton, New Jersey. Known as the Trinton Anvil.
Oldest manufacturing of anvils in the U.S., 1843.
"The face consists of a single piece of the very best cast steel,
perfectly welded and of the hardest temper. The horn is made of tough
untempered steel and will neither break nor bend. All 'Eagle' anvils
made with the latest Fisher Patent double thick steel on both edges of
the face. From 10 to 1300 lbs."
How to identify. A spread eagle [1922 the eagle is enclosed in a
horseshoe]
The weight of the anvil is on the right foot. " FISHER" stamped on front
of foot below the tail. Above this on the top of the foot is "PATENT".
Forged eyelets are on each foot under the tail and horn.
Peter Wright & Sons, England. Wiebusch & Hilcer, Ltd., New York Office,
9-15 Murray Street, New York City.
Peter Wright
Patent
Solid Wrought
Columbian Hardware Company, Cleveland, Ohio.
"Columbian All-Steel Anvil"
'Columbian' on body.
Hay-Budden Mfg. Co., Brooklyn N.Y.
"Hay-Budden solid Wrought Anvils. Gold Medal Award in 1898 at Omaha and
1901 at Pan American. Made of the best American Wrought Iron and faced
with best crucible cast steel.
Hay-Budden
Manufacturing Co.
Brooklyn, N.Y.
U.S.A.
Soederfors Bruks Aktiebolog, Falan, Sweden. General Sales Agent, Hrace
T. Potts & Company, Philadelphia, U.S.A.
"Paragon Solid Anvil. Made of one piece of steel. There are no welds to
come apart."
Solid Steel
Paragon [enclosed in rectangle]
Sweden
All of the above except Peter Wright are advertised in ther Jan. 1915 issue.
In March 1922, only Trenton Solid Wrought and Hay-Budden run advertisements.
October 1922, only Trenton Solid Wrought with Eagle inside a horseshoe.
Other Anvils manufactured in the early 20's.
Vulcan, made entirely of tough untempered steel. The body is charcoal
iron, and the face is covered with one solid peice of tool steel welded
to the body.
Montgomery Wards in their 1894-95 cagtalog, list "An American Wrought
'Horse Shoe' anvil and the Peter Wright Blacksmith Wrought Anvil.
In 1908 Sears lists the Acme anvil forged of two pieces of wrought iron
welded at the waist; face is made of one piece of tool steel, electriclly
welded to the body. "Acme Guaranted" on the body.
In a 1916? Reichman-Crosly Co. advertisest the Peter Wright Wrought, the
Vulcan with Arm and Hammer inside a circle in raised letters, the Columbian
All-steel, and the Hay-Budden.
All for now.
Page
**********
Phil Rosche wrote:
> > Greetings,
> > I'm somewhat interested in upgrading my anvil. Can you folks give me some
> > advice on kinds of anvils, and reasonable pricing? I'm figuring on looking
> > at farm auctions, estate sales, and maybe at talegate sales. Thanks for
> > your comments and suggestions. JS
> JS:
>
> I like the following kinds of anvils in order of preference (this is
> only based on what I have used):
>
> Hay Budden
> Peter Wright
> Peddinghaus
> Fisher Norris
> Columbian
> Kohlswa
> Arm and Hammer
>
> I think a really decent price is $1-2 a pound. If it's in really (as in
> pristine) condition, I don't mind paying $3-3.50.
>
> Phil Rosche
Add to that list Vulcan anvils, which are awful, and Jet, which are
worse than awful.
Larry Noller
************
At 11:34 PM 9/22/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I have a line on a 275# Peddinghaus double horn anvil. It is supposed
>to be in excellent condition, but I haven't seen it yet. I havn't used
>one of these before... is it anything special? Having outgrown my 130#
>haybudden, I need a new anvil, but I don't know if I can justify the
>expense... (we haven't gotten down to the bottom line yet, but I know
>what they cost at Centaur) Is this the anvil of my dreams, or should I
>keep looking?
>
>
The interesting part about the Peddinghaus anvil, at least to me, is that
the second horn is flat topped. Also, if I remember correctly, the sides
at this end are also flat, not curved like a typical horn. Having this
tapering flat surface can really come in handy at times for those hard to
get at pieces that need to be worked on.
I've never used a Peddinghaus, but the design is very similar to the
Refflinghaus, which I have used and liked very much.
Dave Brown
HOODS AND CHIMNEYS: (See Also Volume #1)
Mark wrote:
> I will be moving my forge inside this fall . The building it is going
> into has a steel insulated(with fiberglass batt) roof . My question is
> must I use an insulated steel chimney or could I use just a steel pipe.
> The hood is 3'x4' and the exit flue is 10" diameter . Which would draw
> better ? Any suggestions would be appreciated .Mark from Wisconsin
On the "suggestions would be appreciated" side --
At last spring's NWBA conference in Eugene, OR, I was very impressed
with our host's chimney and hood arrangement. It was very effective and
worked great. I'll try to describe it, so please bear with me.
Basically, it consisted of a larger diameter outer pipe that started
about 6 feet above the forge. Inside this was a smaller pipe with a
small (about 2 1/2 feet in diameter) cone-shaped hood. The outer pipe
was 10" in diameter, the inner pipe was 8" in diameter. The inner pipe
was telescoped into the fixed outer pipe and counterweighted. In
addition, there were visible spacers on the bottom of the outer (fixed)
pipe to keep the moveable inner pipe approximately centered. I'm not
sure if there were spacers on the top of the inner pipe.
The inner pipe and hood could be brought down into contact with the coal
in the forge and raised up about 5 or 6 feet above. The counterweight
arrangement (rope, pulleys, and weight) made it effortless to move. The
friction of the two pipes (and centering ring) kept it right where you
put it.
To light, you build your fire and get the flame going, bring the hood
right down to surround the flame and pour on the blast. Almost no smoke
escapes into the shop. Within a few minutes you start raising the hood.
By now the air inside the chimney is well heated and the chimney is
drawing. By the time the fire is burning good, the chimney is drawing
great and the hood is about 3 feet above the fire. If you need more
head room over the fire, it's easy to get. If you're banking down for a
while, just bring the hood down.
I'm seriously considering a shop expansion (the mess has grown to
overflow the space available). When (if) I get the shop expanded, I
plan to replace my fixed chimney with this style. It's the best I've
seen yet.
Morgan Hall
HARDENING AND TEMPERING STEEL: (See Also Volume #1)
Ron... just came across some more info for O-1 re final hardness after
tempering.
Harden at 1450-1500F. oil quench
Temper at 300-350 1 hour for 62/64
temper at 400-450 1 hour for 58/60
temper at 800-850 1 hour for 48/52
Take care.
Lee Marshall
**************
In a message dated 97-02-13 22:01:50 EST, you write:
<< More accurately, If the sparks look like a shotgun blast, low to medium
carbon. If the sparks look like a bunch of single lines, real low
carbon. If the sparks look like the 4th of july, then you got high
carbon. >>
That will certainly get you close enough to temper the chisel that was made.
You can, however, determine the carbon content of the unknown piece of steel
much more accurately than your description.
I have a small piece of each of the following:
Wrought Iron 1018
3130 4140
1045 5160
1085
By comparing the sparks of the unknown piece with the known samples, you
can get pretty close to the actual carbon content.
Keith
***************
At 5:40 PM 2/20/97, Tom Vincent wrote:
>Clay, could I trouble you to let me know your forging and hardening temps,
>or colors? Thanks, Tom
Forge above cherry red and below yellow.
>> Don't heat too fast or too hot. I have seen some real hot ones come apart
>> on the first blow.
>> I normalize them, quench in water (not cold water) and draw temper to blue.
>> The head which is to be struck is left soft from the normalizing.
Normalize by heating just to nonmagnetic, not 200° above, and set aside
until cool to touch.
Heat slowly and just as it becomes nonmagnetic, quench the tool edge
(usually in water) and about an inch of stock above the edge.
Shine the surface above the edge and just as blue gets close to the edge,
cool in water to stop the tempering process(this is not quenching).
If any of the tool is above a black heat at this time, do not put that part
in water. Put 1/2" of water in in a can and stand the working edge in the
water, let the rest cool slowly.
Check the hardened edge for hardness with a file-should just barely cut or
maybe skate. Check the struck head to make sure the file cuts it easily,
otherwise it is too hard.
For hot cutting tools, it probably isn't worth the effort to quench and temper.
You must always normalize or anneal any tool you have forged.
Clay
**************
>Clay
>What is involved in the normalize process?
Normalize
Heat just to point that it has no magnetic attraction and lay aside to cool.
Anneal
Heat just to point that it has no magnetic attraction and put in
vermiculite, lime or ashes to cool.
Clay
*************
One of the neatest helps in determining the anneal, normalize, quench
temperature is a "cow magnet" It's a slim, cylindrical, bar type magnet
about 4 inches long. Quite strong, and if you don't drop it it will
serve for many years. Available at Farm Supply Stores, or you can have
your local veternarian get some for you...they cure or prevent "Hardware
Disease." He'll know what you mean.
The best method to determine the temperature at which to anneal,
normalize, quench is to heat slowly till just above the point at which
the magnet no longer is attracted to the iron. Check this often when you
reach a cherry and heat slowly beyond till the magnet has no effect,
then one more easy heat. Then bury in ashes or any good insulating
material (except fiberglass) for several hours, or until you can touch it
with your bare hand. Re-heat to that non-magnetic point, and quench in
whatever medium is appropriate...(don't know what kind of steel you
have...use oil) then reheat with a propane torch or above the fire till
you get the color appropriate for the tool/part. Quench again to stop
that process and you're done. Alexander Weygers' book "The Making of
Tools" covers this in detail isbn o-442-29360-7 it's a great reference
for everyone.
Bob
*************
There is one metallurgical explanation for the efficacy of
"packing": If the piece has been heated much above critical
temperature for any length of time, grain growth will have occured,
weakening the part. Hammering the surface at red heat will reduce
the size of the surface grains, somewhat improving strength.
A much better approach is to normalize the piece: Heat to just
above critical and allow to slowly air cool. This will restore
the fine grain structure. (Critical temp is where the steel
becomes non-magnetic.)
Ken Zastrow
**************
Robert,
I am sure that there are persons out there that know all about this
stuff and you may also find that there are as many oppinions as there
are persons who have them.
In any event, while you are waiting for the oppinions to roll in, you can
do what you ancestor (smiths) would do and that is experiment!
Take some metal, heat it up but not to critical and quench it. Is it soft?
is it brittle? What is the grain like etc. This process is described in
many blacksmithing books. If you do, pass it on to the rest of us
what your results are.
It is also possible to harden one end of a piece and temper it and then
go back and heat the other end, keeping the first end cool with water
so it does not change its temper and then harden and temper the
other end.
I just finished reading "Step-By Step Knifemaking" by David Boye. He
hardens the * whole* blade in the first quench. Then he goes back and
draws the temper to the cutting edge to a light or dark straw depending
on the steel and the intended use of the blade. This process does not
fully temper the back of the knife so he does a second tempering where
he keeps the edge cool in water and uses a torch to temper the spine
down to within about 1/2 - 3/4 " of the edge to a deep peacock blue. This
keeps the blade springy and strong in the body but the edge remains hard.
Then he tempers the tang to the blue also. It is a study in being able to
actually treat different parts of the same piece of steel almost as if they
were totally separate.
I just did this process on a lawnmower blade vegetable knife and it works
fine. You just have to be careful and really keep the parts you are not working
on *cool*.
This kind of experimentation is a great teacher and we will all benefit if
you pass on your conclusions when you are finished.
Frederick Faller
***********
>Just an update on some experimentation that may save some of you
>a bit of grief in the future:
Standard Rule:
If you're not positive what steel it is and it wasn't file
hard after it cooled down (air hardening), always quench it in Oil first
then if the file still cuts it you can go to water (brine). Once you've
successfully hardened a piece stamp the stock end it came from "A", "O" or
"W" before you throw it back on the tool steel pile.
If you bought the steel stamp both ends (eg S1, S5, O1,
A33, etc) before you put it down anywhere.
Pollins
>I am trying to solder some steel pins to the backs of 1\4 inch brass and
>am having
>trouble making them stick.
Try Silver Brazing Alloy Kit No. 101 by All-State. Container says: "Ideal
for tight fitting joints and light gauge ferrous and nonfferrous metals or
combinations of both (excluding white meatals)." Contains Cadmium.
I've used it to solder fairly heavy brass to 1/4" thick mild steel with
good results.
Ian
*************
Make sure that you are using the correct solder. Tin-Lead solder
does not work very well with steel. Use a tin-silver or a tin-silver-lead
solder and it will improve your chances with steel. It takes more heat
but the silver provides good adhesion to the steel.
Frederick Faller
************
One method that works well for me is to use rough sandpaper, or emory
cloth, on both surfaces. (To remove coatings, you may sometimes need to
grind down to bare steel or brass.) Sanding will roughen the surfaces up
and remove some of the oxides. Then wash with soap/water, use acid flux and
immediately heat metal with torch (not solder) until solder melts and flows
into joint. The better the joint, the better the solder will hold. Silicone
Bronze brazing rod will also work, just tricky (to me) to keep from melting
thin brass work piece.
I've been using "Metal Mender" solder from True Value. Of the many solders
I've tried, it's worked the best. It's acid cored and contains lead, so
beware. But it does stick very well.
David
The best post vice repair I just heard of at the Indina Connerence WAS!!!
Pull out the messed up screw, and affix a shaft, to the front jaw and on the
end of the shaft that sticks through the back hole, attach a 2 1\2 x 2" air
cyl., hook it up to a three way valve with a manual or a foot switch, and you have a very very
strong and a very fast working vice, just think how many times you open and
close a vice for wire brushing.
Mike Wolfe
************
Ron Reil asked about material to prevent brazing metal from
spreading where you don't want it. I have used white shoe polish
with reasonable success. I have heard of other material(s),
but don;t recall what they were. Try a jewelry supply house if
you can't find something in your local welding supply shop.
Ken Zastrow
***********
Ron,
I've done some babit work and have always had good luck using candle soot
as a release on the shaft. If you hold the threads over a candle that
should prevent the braze from sticking.
Bob
>> Where did you find the ACME thread rod and nuts? The hardware stores
>I've tried have never heard of it and have no idea where to get it. ACME rod and nuts are >available from almost any of the industrial supply houses. Try McMaster Carr (Sp?). You >certainly will not find it in your local hardware store. You should also check your local >junk/recycling yard.There are often fine ACME threaded screws and nuts there as part >ofscrapped out equipment. It would be a LOT cheaper too. You can get it up to 2-1/2" in >diameter in this country. You might get it bigger outside the US.
>I was looking at getting some 2-1/2" ACME rod for a BIG screw press.
>It is spendy, so are the big flanged nuts, over $100 each!
>The nuts can be ordered as regular nuts, or flanged at a considerable
>premium. I should add that I never order this stuff myself. I have a friend
>with a machine shop who has all the catalogs and connections and gets
>everything I need for cost. I do a lot of work for him in exchange for all
>the machining time and other help. I have three forges, but no lathe. :-)
>> Also you say that you are going to "tin" the parts. Do you mean brass plate or tin with solder?
>Tin them with brazing rod. That way they will easily bond with 100%
>contact, no gaps. By the way, I mix a little brazing flux with water in a
>table spoon or other small container (to saturation), and paint it on my
>cleaned surface prior to heating. I use a small artist's paint brush. I
>find that I get more reliable "wetting" of the metal with the brass.
>As soon as the work comes up in temperature add the powdered flux too.
>This just prevents oxidation problems during the early heating stages.
>The only difficulty I foresee is getting enough of the brazing removed
>from the "tinned" surfaces so that they will still slide together. You have
>to wipe it off at a red heat. Once you have them tinned, just slide them
>together and add a little more brazing rod when the brass melts until
>all gaps are filled. Be careful you don't also fill in the threads. <grin>
>I suspect there is something you could paint on to the parts of the nut
>you don't want brazing to flow on to. If you happen to know what to use I
>would like to know too, just to prevent fouling the threads.
> Ron
*************
ACME THREADED ROD:
There are ways to get hold of McMaster Carr. While they don't send a catalog to
just anyone, they will do business with anyone and their service is excellent.
They have four warehouses and offer one or two day service to most of the
country. Another large supplier is MSC who will send a catalog to anyone that
asks. In addition, MSC will give you an account without a hassle. Finally, a
place someone out west recommended to me. Addresses:
American Material Resources, Inc.
Post Office Box 849
302 6th Avenue
Ouray, CO 81427-0849
970-325-0700
970-325-0505
amrsales@csn.net
http://www.commerce.com/placette
Supplier of all that McMaster Carr does and more for less.
McMaster-Carr Supply Company
PO Box 4355 P.O. Box 54960
Chicago, IL 60680-4355 Los Angeles, CA 90054
708-833-0300 213-945-2811
and 310-692-5911
PO Box 440
New Brunswick NJ 08903-0440 Atlanta: 404-346-7000
908-329-3200 (Sales) 404-349-9091 fax
908-329-6666 (Other Departments)
908-329-3772 FAX
Sales @ McMaster.com email
http://www.mcmaster.com/ web site
Suppliers of industrial anything-you-need. Their catalog is huge,
but they want a business name before they will send a catalog.
They will sell to anyone.
MSC Industrial Supply Company
151 Sunnyside Blvd.
Plainview, NY 11803-1592
800-645-7270
800-255-5067 fax
516-349-0265 FAX
http://www.industry.net/mrop/msc
Suppliers of everything from nuts & bolts to machinery. Their
catalog runs to 3000 pages. They prefer a business name, but will
sell to anyone.
Hope this helps in finding Acme threaded nuts & bolts.
Mark
*************
> Ron Reil asked about material to prevent brazing metal from
> spreading where you don't want it. I have used white shoe polish
> with reasonable success. I have heard of other material(s), but
> don;t recall what they were. Try a jewelry supply house if you
> can't find something in your local welding supply shop.
Wite-Out -- The stuff used insteadof erasing at typewriters
(Rememeber typewriters?) seems to work for both brazing and silver
soldering. The traditional one is, I believe, yellow ochre pigment
made liquid with water or alcohol.
<> Marrin T. Fleet <>
*************
Stephen,
I have several square sockets cast into the concrete floor of my shop.
They are made from square tubing with reinforcing rod welded to them and
are about 10" long. Concrete was poured around them about 16" deep and
about 2' square with more rebar to make a strong stable base. My hossfield
bender and my post vice are attached to square tubing that fits snugly into
the socket. For my post vice I attached a foot 10" or so from the bottom
of the tube with a hole drilled in it to accept to pin at the bottom of the
vice. I made a small table at the top of the tube that the vice bolts to
and gives a place to lay tools etc. The setup is not completely ridged due
to a small amount of play in the socket but works well for me and I have
done some serious pounding on my vice. I made caps that fit in the sockets
when they aren't being used to keep out dirt. I use my shop for a variety
of things and this allows me to put things where I need them.
Dan Cruzan
> From: Stephen Deppen <sdeppen@worldnet.att.net>
> To: 'theforge@wugate.wustl.edu'
> Subject: Post vice setup?
> Date: Saturday, September 06, 1997 10:11 AM
>
>
> I would like some suggestions on setting up my post vice. I have seen a
> number of setups, on the edge of a bench and standing alone in the middle
> of the work area. I prefer the vice to stand alone, as his allows easy
> access to all angles of the piece. I have seen many methods of mounting
> the vice, scrap 2x4s hammered together and driven into a dirt floor, I
beam
> with a wooden top attached to a large circular plate that allowed the
vice
> to be moved, a similar setup bolted to the concrete floor, etc.
>
> I plan to get more into carving and chasing metal so in need a stable
> platform on which to bash my metal. I also will have (hopefully)
concrete
> floors in my workshop. What do the experienced smiths (i.e. members of
> this list) suggest?
> Thanks
> Stephen Deppen
*************
>I would like some suggestions on setting up my post vice. I have seen a
>number of setups, on the edge of a bench and standing alone in the middle
>of the work area. I prefer the vice to stand alone, as his allows easy
>access to all angles of the piece. I have seen many methods of mounting
>the vice, scrap 2x4s hammered together and driven into a dirt floor, I beam
>with a wooden top attached to a large circular plate that allowed the vice
>to be moved, a similar setup bolted to the concrete floor, etc.
>
>I plan to get more into carving and chasing metal so in need a stable
>platform on which to bash my metal. I also will have (hopefully) concrete
>floors in my workshop. What do the experienced smiths (i.e. members of
>this list) suggest?
>Thanks
>Stephen Deppen
Stephen, My favorite way to mount a multitude of vises and fabricating
tables and devices is to bury an 18-24" 3/8 wall 6"x6" square tubing into
the floor and use your concrete floor as an anvil and the tube like a hardy
hole tool,because 1/2" x 5"x5" tubing will slide right into that and you can
put anything you want onto that and it will not move. If you find the slop
of 1/16-1/8" unsatisfactory you can drive some metal wedges into the seam
between the two and it will be very stable. This works well puting it in
before you've poured your floor obviously. Good thought to keep when
building a shop.
My portable leg vise is mounted on that steel plate with the I
beam in the middle that you mentioned,and I used Mark Williams idea to put a
plate behind the vice for all the bending jigs to fit in....thank you Mark.
Ralph Sproul
AIR HAMMERS AND OTHER POWER HAMMERS:
..Well...I've seen this principle used for winches on log trucks here in
the piney-woods...
The first thing I see is that you apperently have a pin in one of the
lug-bolt holes to or some such arrangement to push the hammer into the
work...It would seem better to use the pin to raise the hammer so it will
free-fall into the work as the positive movement of the "pushed" hammer
will not compensate for different thicknesses of the workpiece. I
suggest something in the manner of a starter-handle as fitted to some of
the old-time double-flywheel "hit-and-miss" engines that folded into the
flywheel after the engine started so that it engages the handle of the
hammer on the upward stroke and folds up out of the way as the pin passes
over top-dead-center; this way the hammer can fall unobstructed and one
does not need to synchronise the speed of the wheel with the pendulum
effect of the hammer...spring-load the pin so it flies outward to catch
the hammer on the next stroke..
...Next, one does not need the master cylinder, just use the emergency
brake cable and connect it to a treadle; the hammer will rise and fall so
long as you hold the treadle down..you can also ease the pressure off the
treadle and slip the brake to slow the hammer down...
jays4@netcom.ca wrote:
> I recently picked up this item from a discussion on the Blacksmiths
> I am posting it here to theforge in the hopes of getting a little
> critical evaluation of this design. What do you think - would it work?
> Can you suggest any improvements? How safe would something like this be?
...It's something *I* would build...
> Wayne Jay,
> Subject: power hammer
> Here are the plans for the power hammer.
> If you take a rear diff from a car(working), and drive it with a motor and
> flywheel at the point where the gearbox attaches to it connected with a vee
> belt, the motor must be quite a powerful one, mine is a 1.5 hp motor running
> at about 600rpm (6 pole induction motor) and at only one wheel side you
> leave the drum brake and connect it to a master cylinder, so if the motor is
> driving the diff then it willbe driving the two axels, then you were to hit
> the brake, the end with the brake will stop turning and the other end will
> be turning twice the speed (this is the way diffs work). At the end without
> the brake you put a small sledge hammer (12lb) axially eg:
>
> || <- Hammer handle
> ||
> Axel \/ |||
> ---------------|||
> ---------------|||
> |||
> ||
> _||_
> ( ) <-Hammer head
> ( )
> ----
>
> Top view
>
> then put a spring about 100mm from the hammer head vertically up so when
> nothing is turning the hammer handle rests on the spring eg:
> _____ ____
> Axel flange-> / \ | |
> --------------------------| |
> --------------------------| |
> \ / / / | |
> spring-> \ \ ----
> / / Frame \/
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
> The spring must be strong enough to stop the hammer from moving down when
> the diff is being driven, but soft enough that when you push the master
> cylinder the hammer moves down fast and WHACK! If you position the master
> cylinder below the handle end of the sledge hammer and time it such that
> just when the hammer raises itself it pushes the master cylinder and hammers
> again.
>
> To control the speed of the hammer move the motor up and that will loosen
> the belt and the motor will no longer grip the flywheel and the power hammer
> will slow down.
>
> all that is left is to make a frame.
>
> Author Background:
> I am currently 17 years old and have been doing blacksmithing and making
> gadgets
> for at least 5 years. I live in Australia and am always coming up with gadgets
> or as my friends say "hair brained ideas" and am pleased to say most of them
> work. Please send me a donation if you use this idea, I like to share my ideas
> and would also like to hear yours
> Please send donations to:
>
> Adriaan Seevinck, Kingfisher Forge
> 25 Grenoble St The Gap Brisbane Qld
> Australia 4061
*************
> by the way have you seen the plans for the Kinyon air hammer......pretty nice.
> Ralph Sproul
Actually in the early days I was able to move most of my "stuff" in the
largest UHAUL and about a dozen van loads. When I moved out my parients
truly had an empty nest and could even get their cars back in their
garage.
I got a set of the Kinyon Air Hammer plans, it does look like a nice
hammer. I was at the Stonewall Jackson Jubelee last weekend and noticed
a small power hammer that a smith had on the back of his deminstration
trailer. I asked him about it. He said it was a "Maytag." It was powered
by a motor he recycled from an old washing machine. The head only
weighed about fifteen pounds but seemed fine for most light work. The
head was connected by a light leaf spring recycled from a utility
trailer was held by a center pivot. A foot peddle caused the motor to
tighten the belt that controlled the action of the hammer. He told me
had a hundred pounder that he build for his shop, based on the same
design. I like the control an air hammer gives. If a mechanical power
hammer can give about the same control, with a cluch and brake, then
there's no need to have an air compressor running at full tilt.
Jay Hayes
REPOUSSE': (Also See Volume #1)
>I believe I heard George Dixon mention that his repousse' tools, less
>than 1/2 inch were made of drill stem (3/8") and they were S1 steel. Is
>that correct and if so, where can this material be obtained? It may be
>more economical than H-13 air hardening steel.
>
>Ernie
Ernie,
Centaur Forge (1-414-763-9175) sells H-13, S-5 and S-7. These are all good
hot/cold work steels. The H-13 is $2.95 for a 1/2 x 8 1/2" piece. The S-5
is $4.50 for a 5/8 x 10" piece (both round stock). Pretty cheap either way.
Good luck.
Bob
************
>In the Hammer's Blow and watching your demonstrations at the Rocky
>Mountain Smiths Conference you >suggest making slitting chisels, fullers,
>butchers etc. in incremental sizes with the same radiuses...........
What I was trying to suggest is to make slitting chisels that
have the same thickness but incremental widths. This common cutting edge
thickness leaves incised lines that have the same visual line-weight. That
is to say that they would all leave the same width line if struck to the
same depth. For example, 3/16" wide, 3/8" wide and 1/2" wide chisels
that are all similar in thickness would allow you to switch between them,
as the pattern requires, and still maintain the same visual effect in
incising as if a single tool was used.
Why switch between various straight chisels? The 1/2" wide chisel
will cut a straight line, as will the 3/8" wide and 3/16" wide chisel. But
the 3/8" wide and 3/16" wide, straight chisels will cut or incise
progressively tighter curves. Having the same line-weight as they cut ever
tighter curves allows one to cut a near infinite range of curves as well as
various length straight lines while maintaining the visual width of the cut
as a decorative constant (calligraphy with a chisel ). This line weight
in incising can be seen in pierced work as a constant bevel along the
cut edge that you will not get if the chisels have varying thicknesses as
you switch between them to accommodate the pattern. Visualize a set of
chisels with a common wedge in vertical section compared to a set with
varied vertical wedge sections.....
Also... In cutting or incising intricate patterns one finds the
need for varied length straight and curved cutting capacity. In some
cases the curve is so tight that only a curved chisel will suffice, then
make one appropriate to the patterns' demands. (Make all curved chisels
symmetrical. Test in lead before heat treatment by rotating it as it is
struck. A symmetrical curved chisel will cut a core-shaped plug, an
asymmetrical curved chisel will ride out of its track and give a choppy cut
when rotated). Otherwise, it is very handy to move from a straight cut into
a range of broad curves using just the three sizes of straight chisels.
This is true whether you incise into or cut completely through the metal.
Intricate repousse' and pierced sheet metal patterns with areas cut out
completely (negative spaces) often have various length short straight lines
to cut as well.
Lastly on chisels, the cutting edge should be slightly crowned
along its blade length, so the center just makes contact first with both
ends of the blade radiused so the cutting edge continues up the side of the
chisel for a distance. Chisels intended for deep slitting should have a
cutting edge that extends up the side for about half of the thickness of
the metal to be slit. The ideal cross section for a slitting or incising
chisel is elliptical, like a canoe. If one was to make slices through a
properly formed chisel there should be progressively narrower canoe shaped
cross sections as you approach the actual blade. Why go through all of
this for a chisel?...... When one cuts or incises a line, one should move
the chisel forward about one half of the blade length per stroke. The
cutting edge that runs from the center of the blade up the side of the
chisel leads the cut cleanly. The radius on the corner makes a leading cut
that is a diagonal to the plane of the metal being cut. This gives a
visually clean effect ( a tapered cut rising through the metal) at the end
of a slit AND, since it is diagonal through the metal instead a vertical
line, flexing is less likely to result in a crack. A saw cut split often
cracks during flexing since it is vertical through the metal. The canoe or
elliptical cross section has the effect of planishing the lead cut mark as
the thicker center is moved forward a half-chisel length per cut. (Do not
get the center too thick or the wedge action will cause drag as well as
wedging open the cut and tearing the metal). So, what happens is a lead
cut followed by planishing action at the middle of the chisel as the lead
cut is moved forward. You get cuts so clean that little or no filing is
needed afterwards. Make each cutting process a series of passes, do not
force the tool through the material if you want a smooth result.
>What increments or sizes would you recommend for a basic set of tools,
and would the sizes
>be the same for each tool type? Since 1/4" stock for a 1/4" tool would not
>stand up to a treadle or hand hammer what size stock do you recommend?
The chisels sizes above plus:
1) Butchers in 1/8", 1/4" and 1/2" width (First and second pass as a set.
First pass butchers are steeper in angle back from the vertical face,
second pass about half as steep, about 30 degrees and 45 degrees
respectively)
2) Flatters in 1/8" square, 1/4" square and 3/8" square...all with a
slightly crowned face and less than sharp edges
3) Ball end tools that are in sets, one half-round and one elliptical face
per size in every size of tool steel stock I find. start with 1/8" round ,
then 5/16", 3/8". 1/2". 5/8", 3/4" and 1".
4) Chasing tools have work faces that can range all over the map. start
with oval and rectangular faces, slightly crowned in sizes similar to those
cited above. Ball end tools are also used in chasing.
5) Teardrop flatters or 'shoes'. These have a teardrop shaped perimeter to
the working face that is slightly crowned in some while others with the
same 'foot print' are dead flat , both types have slightly rounded edges.
These tools range in size from 3/16" from point to heel up to 1/2" in
several increments and the width at the heel ranges from 1/8" to 3/8"
wide.
6) Fullers; there is the fuller shape most are familiar with, it is a
tapered wedge that ends in various half-rounds or elliptical working
faces. The sides are somewhat squared off. This configuration is intended
to span the material to be fullered. For repousse' and chasing, a fuller
that has the ends tapered and rounded with a slight crown along the work
face is better. This blunt version of a chisel, with less of a canoe-like
section, allows conventional fullering, set and strike...but it also allows
the tool to be slid a half-tool length per strike so as to leave a fullered
line that has no tool marks. Conventional fuller shapes tend to dig in at
the ends if they are not held perfectly vertical.
I heat treat all of my tools full length save about 1/2" at the end
so they do not spall when struck. Full length heat treatment allows a 1/4"
W-1 (water hardening drill rod) tool, for example, to survive treadle
hammer work all day long. Although I use 1/2" round S1 for all of my
chisels and butchers, due to the heat resistant properties that are needed
for thin bladed tools (I use all of my tools in either hot or cold work
without regard to tool steel. All work is laid out then marked cold with
the tool to be used in the subsequent process, either hot or cold), many of
my chasing (repousse') tools are either 1/4". 5/16" or 3/8" round W-1. Due
to the mass of their blunt working ends (small flatters, ball shapes which
are half-round and elliptical faced in every size I can find, oval and
rectangular faced, all with a slightly crowned work surface), W-1 is OK
for chasing tools smaller than 1/2" diameter.
One point to make in this tool explanation; although I am
describing tools that may seem somewhat small, my scale of work ranges from
very small to large. A small tool is more versatile, it fits into more
spaces and a small tool transfers more energy from the hammer (hand or
treadle) to the work face due to its small footprint. This really matters
in deep cold chasing. The shapes are more generic than specific in that
there are very few that give a single effect. This also allows more
versatility of work. My choice of work is period European motifs, which
means an huge range of patterns and shapes. The generic, small tool
approach allows a smaller set of tools to do a wider range of work in a
wider range of sizes than any other approach I have encountered.
>Do you use a few standard sizes and forge the business end to smaller sizes
>or do you make them both smaller and larger from the same size stock? So
>for instance do you use 3/8" stock for sizes 3/8 and smaller, less than
>3/8, or greater than 3/8 by spreading the end?
As alluded to above, there are certain cases as well as availability's of
tool steel that makes it necessary to draw down some stock, 1/2" round S1
for a 3/16" wide chisel blade for example. But for the most part, tools
that are blunt as opposed to chisels (straight and curved) and butchers,
are made out of stock close to the size needed for the working end.
To use these tools: There is a specific action used in applying tool to
metal. Although there are plenty of times that a tool is set and struck as
a single operation, most application of tooling to metal (hot or cold)
involves setting the tool and maintaining continuous contact (as opposed to
set and strike, set and strike) while striking and dragging the working end
along the layout. The crowned faces of the tools makes it easier to drag
the tool , again- one half tool width per blow- without lifting and setting
it per strike. This dragging or continuous contact approach gives a much
smoother effect to whatever tool process one is applying. Cutting,
chasing, incising etc. are all made much cleaner this way. There is also
less chance of a miss-strike. When one lifts the tool and sets it anew
with every strike it is easy to set it off and strike it anyway due to the
rhythm that develops. So set the tool on the layout or previous pass, and
with a rocking and dragging motion..drag and strike. This applies to
either hand or treadle hammer driven tooling.
If you decide to make these or any kind of tools, pay very close attention
to the details of form, edge, radius and finish (polish the working end
like a mirror - less friction as it moves across or through the metal).
This attention to the tool will help you refine it if it does not work
like you think it should. The difference between a tool that works REAL
WELL and one that does not is often very subtle. Those subtleties will not
be apparent without trial and error and attention paid to the result of
every nuance of modification. Other than that, it's real casual
stuff.........
Respectfully,
George Dixon
Marc Davis
Grainger has one for 42.20 it is model 4c443 and does 100 cfm@2870 RPMs @.74 A
It has a nice 3 hole flange with an opening of 2 1/8". I have been using
one on my gas forge for about two yearsnow. They Have offices all over the
country Check local listings if you don't find one let me know where you
are at and I'll look one up for you.
Have a good one
Marc
****************
According to an ad in _The American Blacksmith_ the Royal Blower/Western
Chief crank turns right or let, its operation is easy and noiseless,
blast is powerful, after-blast lasting, gears and boxes are phosphor bronze and
steel, it has no spiral or worm gears and the fan is 12 inches.
It was manufactured by Canedy-Otto Mfg. Co., Chicago Heights, Ill.
They also manufactured The Western Chief, No. 14 Drill and the Royal No.
100 Forge. The Blower (mine is at least 70 years old and blowing strong)
and Forge are the best ever.
Page A. Thomas
**************
I started using my auction acquired Royal with 30 wt. (all I had)
You are correct, it was difficult to crank, a few leaks around the
gearbox housing. Someone suggested adding kerosene. After some
serious leaking around the gearbox housing, the kerosene apparently
swelled the paper gasket enough to stop it. Am happy to say, the Royal
has required no additional lube in 12 years and serves for my uses.
The aforementioned "someone" reasoned that the low speed gears didn't
require a modern highspeed lubricant, the gaskets were probably paper or
cork, (a later disassembly to cure a chipped tooth proved him right) and
his lubrication suggestion was right on.
Bob
*************
Want a really cheap blower that makes lots of air, and pressure too?
See your friendly neighborhood appliance repairman. The blower from a
junked clothes dryer will blow the coal right out of your forge.
Mike George
TORCHES: (Also See Volume #1)
I am a little hesitant to post this, but since I recently discovered
that not everyone had heard of this, I felt it was worth a few words.
Rather than use those flint type strikers for your
oxy-acetylene/propane torches use a long-neck lighter. I am refering
to the lighters made by Scripto and Bic that have a long neck and a
small piezo starter in the tip. You squeeze the trigger and the
lighter lights. When the butane runs out, the piezo starter is still
very good and lasts for a -long- time. Use that instead of your
flint striker to light your torch and you will never have to run out
for new flints again. I usually have several of them scattered
around the shop and I have been using several for about 3 years.
Since I routinely buy that style lighter for my BBQ grill, I never
run out of "empties".
It's a simple trick, but those are usually the best.
Franklyn D. Garland
*************
Walter L. Mullett wrote:
>
> I gave an article to our newsletter editor on the treadle torch that was
> discussed here a couple of weeks ago. This interested one of our
> members but it seems I did not include a manufacture/supplier for the
> valve.
> Does anybody have the name? Do you Mark W.?
> Thanks,
> Walt
Walt,
The one I use is made by:
Weldit Division
National Torch Tip Co., Inc.
50 Freeport Road
Pittsburgh, PA 15215
V(412)781-4200
F(412)781-1075
They have several models for different gases (all look about the same
- difference is pilot light assemblies):
Model W-100 Gasaver for MAPP or Propylene/Oxygen
Model W-101 Gasaver for Acetylene
Model W-102 Gasaver for Inert Arc Welding
Model W-103 Gasaver for Natural Gas
Model W-104 Gasaver for Propane at 4 psi or more
The inlet side of Models W-100, W-101 and W-104 is connected to a fuel
gas pilot light. Model W-103 requires an additional hose to supply the
pilot light. The inlet and outlet threads are Class B, 9/16-18 male,
L.H. for fuel gas, R.H. for oxygen.
The Model W-102, for inert gas-water applications, does not have a
pilot light. The inlet and outlet threads are Class B, 5/8-18 female,
L.H. for water, R.H. for inert gas.
I bought mine for $80 in 1994.
Hope this helps.
Tom Coker
Wheaton, MD, USA
(DC Metro area)
***********
H R. HOLT wrote:
> David,
> If you find the time, kindly fill me in on, what is a "Dillon/Henrob"
> torch. I'm trying to fill in the gap between my Air/acetylene torch and
> oxyacaetylene torch.
> Many thanks,
> Hal
A Dillion is a gas welding torch made in Australia. It has a pistol like
shape, unlike the conventional welding torch design. It uses a single
oxyacetylene flame to preheat the steel and a single oxygen only stream
of higher pressure gas to make the cut. No acetylene flame follows, so
the cut stays clean. The drawback is that the Dillion cutting
attachment works only in one direction. If you want to cut a circle,
you have to keep the preheat oxyacetylene flame and oxygen in a
leading-trailing relationship. Cutting thin sheet metal, such as car
fenders, is really where this torch excels.
The Dillion torch also works well as a regular gas torch for welding..
Michael Patrick
I just received a flyer from the Tavern Puzzle people and in it was an ad
for a book: "Puzzles old and new. How to make and solve them"
The book is by Jerry Slocum and Jack Botermana.
It says the book is available from:
Tucker-Jones House,Inc
PO box 231
East Setauket, NY 11733
Re froe blades: it is harder to come up with a quicker, better froe blade
then a truck or auto leaf spring. Just cut it off to the right length from
the eye (generally speaking, I find a bit shorter to be better...@10"), weld
up the eye, taper the eye slightly (wider at the bottom, cutting edge) and
draw down a beveled blade. In the process take the curve from the blade.
The very best thing I have found for a froe mallet is a dogwood root. Find a
dogwood about 5-6" around at ground level and dig it out, roots and all. Cut
it about 24", trim off all the roots, rough shape the handle and put it in a
plastic bag. About once a week or two turn the bag inside out, let the
surgace moisture dry off the maul (15-20 mins) and put it back in. Just to
be sure we are accurately communicating: the root part becomes the maul head
and the handle runs up the tree trunk. These things last like iron and are
iron friendly.
The combination of spring steel and dogwood, while not historically correct
or as aesthetically appealing, will give you a froe to take to your grave. I
like a hickory or ash handle. Anything else will be less satisfactory.
Kindest regards
Don Plummer
> Well that is my first post in this, I hope, new thread. I can't help but
> think it would be an improvement over the certification thread we have been
> going through. :-)
> OK guys, someone else pick this one up please...thanks.
No egg on your face there, Ron! Here's my contribution:
When I'm not doing anything in particular, I gather up some of the
short stock left over from other projects and make leaves which I
toss in a box to use later as decorations on items I make to sell and
to give to visitors. I found that when I wanted several leaves to
make a "branch" on, say a fireplace tool stand, I could save a lot of
aggravation in this manner.
Using a piece of stock 4-8" long (you pick it, you know what you
want) turn an eye in one end and weld the end to the shank in the
usual manner. In the other end, turn another eye, and weld it as
though it were a lap-link for a chain. Now cut both eyes about
half-way from the welds and spread the "legs"; 3 of the legs will
branch off in one direction and only one will branch in the other.
Form stems and leaves on the three, use the fourth as the "twig" to
weld to the piece you are going to embellish. The advantage is that
throughout the making of the three-leaf set, you are only holding one
piece of iron in the tongs, not trying to join two or more small
pieces together. Of course all you old-timers knew this..
Jack Yates
***********
you wrote:
>Wonderful idea Ron! Jack chipped in right away.
>Keep them coming; we'll worry how to catalog them later.
>Rich
>Getting from idea to finished product in the shortest amount of time.
1) using clay can make you think out your procedures without the heat
2)use poster board for patterns,it's cheaper than steel and you can
file them for repeat projects of the same kind later-also write the stock
size,length,and job notes on those filed pieces.
3)if you like a sketch you have done,and it's not the right size
for the job or if a customer wants this exact thing(picture) or if a book
has the item you want to make, use an opaque projector to shoot the item
onto a piece of posterboard at just the right distance as to proportion your
project. then take the cut out posterboard to your layout table, or floor,
and draw your pattern in soap stone. also keep the posterboard around as you
will smudge and loose your drawing as you work.Then file it away for next time.
Ralph
***********
you wrote:
> >Using a piece of stock 4-8" long (you pick it, you know what you
> >want) turn an eye in one end and weld the end to the shank in the
> >usual manner. In the other end, turn another eye, and weld it as
> >though it were a lap-link for a chain. Now cut both eyes about
> >half-way from the welds and spread the "legs"; 3 of the legs will
> >branch off in one direction and only one will branch in the other.
> >Form stems and leaves on the three, use the fourth as the "twig" to
> >weld to the piece you are going to embellish. The advantage is that
> >throughout the making of the three-leaf set, you are only holding one
> >piece of iron in the tongs, not trying to join two or more small
> >pieces together.
>
> I'm confused, but that isn't anything unusual. In the first weld, you say
> do it in the "usual manner". What's the usual manner? For the second weld
> I'm not sure I know what you mean by a "lap-link for a chain." 4" of stock
> wouldn't give much fore making eyes with, or am I just thinking too big?
>
> I sure wish putting pictures in these postings were easier and didn't make
> for huge files.
> Dave Brown
OOPS! I hit the 4 on the keypad, should have been the 7..That's what
I get for posting after they blow out the lamps..
..Normal manner:
stick a rod in the fire. heat the end, pull it out; the part you are
holding with your tongs is south, the hot part north...make a loop
over the end of the horn and now the *end* of the north end is
facing south, parallel to the rod; weld the end to the rod in this
position.
Lap-link: stick he other end of the rod in the fire, the end
you are holding with the tongs, (the first loop) is south, the hot
end is north...again, turn a loop over the end of the horn, but keep
turning it until the tip of the rod is facing north again, "lapped"
over the rod..Weld this.
Now, when you cut the two loops and hold the lapped end in the tongs,
the first "normal" loop will have both "twigs" branching northward;
the second loop, lap-welded will have one of the twigs branching
northward also, the part that was the end of the rod. The middle
part of the rod will branch southward..
Try it with a piece of string first and you'll get the idea.
..I saw a Keyboard at Sam's Club the other day, it had a little
window that you placed your finger on to move the cursor instead of a
mouse and had a stylus that one could use to sign one's name.
Presumable the stylus could be used to create sketches..
...I want one.......
Jack Yates
BOOKS: (See Also Volume #1)
D. L. Couts wrote:
> fred clark wrote:
> > >Hello, all:
> > >I am a 'smith wannbe. I am a retired machinist. Could someone please
> > >suggest a couple of basic 'smith books? I am a fair hand with a stick
> > >welder, I own a 100# anvil and a few tools I've collected up. The first
> > >projects I want to tackle are tools for the anvil, the 'dies' that fit the
> > >hardee hole, various 'pinchers' to hold hot stuff with, and I need plans
> > >for a small forge. I presently have plans for one using a big truck drum,
> > >but am interested in something I can weld up. After this post, I'll be
> > >listening rather than posting. One other question: how far can I get in
> > >making my first tools using wood rather than coal? Where can one get coal
> > >in St. Louis, MO? (My fireplace died and I have about 6 cords to get rid
(snip)>
> Also try " Country Blacksmithing" by Charles McRaven. Very good beginners
> book. Easy to understand and quite entertaining.
Couldn't help but notice that all the books people were recommending
were out of print so I did a quick check and found some books which I've
found useful and your local bookstore will have or can easily get:
The Art of Blacksmithing, by Alex Bealer, ISBN 0-06-015225-7
Practical Blacksmithing and Metalworking, by Percy Blandford,
ISBN 0-8306-2894-0
The Blacksmith Ironworker and Farrier, by Aldren Watson,
0-393-30683-6
New Edge of the Anvil, by Jack Andrews, ISBN 1-879535-09-2
The Art of Blacksmithing contains some fairly useful instructions for
making a forge with a welded together firepot. I've built a dozen or so
forges over the years and have never bothered with brake drums, I make
the pan by welding together a shallow box about 3" deep and 18" to 24"
square out of 12 gauge steel. Air can come up through a bunch of 1/4"
holes in the bottom of the pan or you can buy or build a fire pot and
tuyere, which will allow a deeper fire. Your air source can be about
anything that delivers 150-500 cfm of air. Control of the air flow is
essential and can be done with a gate or rheostat. Remember to provide
some way to remove ashes that fall through the air inlet.
Eventually you're going to want some smithing tools that you can't
make or find locally. Centaur Forge has the most comprehensive catalog
around (though not always the best prices), their number is:
1-414-763-9175. They sell forges and parts for same, by the way.
Hope this helps, be sure to let us all know if you need any more info
or clarification of previous rambles.
Larry Noller
**************
FYI: Alexander Weygers' three books, The Making of Tools (1973); The
Modern Blacksmith (1974); and The Recycling, Use, and Repair of Tools
(1978); have been republished in a single volume entitled, The Complete
Modern Blacksmith. This new book is published by Ten Speed Press (ISBN
0-89815-896-6, 1997, $19.95). Weygers' books are full of great ideas,
techniques, and excellent illustrations. I found this new single volume
at my local bookstore; I persume Norm Larson has (or soon will have)
this book availble.
**************
If you are interested in doing this seriously, as opposed
to casually, I'd suggest you buy (or borrow) a book entitled
"The Colouring, Bronzing and Patination of Metals" by
Richard Huges and Michael Rowe. It is certainly a definitive
contemporary work on the subject and contains about 360
recipes for patinating copper and related metals and alloys.
It is not cheap at $80, but again if you are looking to
do serious artworks, then I would have to recommend it
highly as it not only gives recipes, but is in itself a
more or less complete textbook on the craft.
Good luck.
-Andy V. - Freehold NJ (happy now?? :) )
**************
I suspect this may become a long thread, but:
An interesting book is-
Hooks, Rings & Other Things, An Illustrated Index of New England Iron
1660-1860
by Frank T. Barnes (Christopher Publishing House, Commerce Green, 24
Rockland St, Hanover, MA 02339)
copyright 1988, ISBN: 0-8158-0440-7
If you ever wanted to make a harpoon or a "Crown" game hanging rack, this
is the book for you.
Enjoy,
George Montee
*************
The is book titled "Custom tools for Woodworkers: designing and making
your own" by Joe Petrovich Stackpole Books 1990- I bought it recently and
am sure it is still in print. It is an excellent book for any blacksmith
interested in this topic. He gives design tips and especially for chisels
he has some very compelling reasons for deviating from the styles
commericially available-he like shorter rather than longer. As a
part-time woodworker and fair blacksmith I can highly recommend this book.
He does cover heat treating, but also encourages experimentation. Your
time will be well spent getting and reading this book before aactually
committing you ideas to steel.
Ben
> OK, here goes: I want to make some woodworking chisels and gouges. I have
> pictures of several common styles and I want to make a handfull to be able to
> chop out and clean up dovetail and mortise & tennon joints for woodworking
> projects. I've also forged several knives so I understand the basics of
> forging and heat treating simple tool steels like 1095, O1 and L6.
>
> What else do I have to know? A few questions present themselves, like how hard
> should I leave the cutting edge? Would the chisel benefit from differential
> hardening/tempering? What alloys are best for making chisels?
>
> My working plan is to make a couple from O1 (I have a lot of it) and experiment
> with different degrees of hardness. The complete plan is to forge a nice set
> out of damascus (probably my favorite 1095+N200 mix) with a flat of M2 forge
> welded on as the cutting edge.
>
> I bet there are a couple of folks here that make a lot of woodworking tools,
> I'd sure like a few pointers before I learn from my own mistakes...
> Joe McGlynn
************
Frederick W. Faller wrote:
> I have read and heard allusions to "chasing" forged pieces and
> and have seen pictures of "chasing tools" in books, but
> references have been very short on the art of chasing itself:
> how it is done, the effects that can be rendered, how the work
> is held, whether it is done hot or cold, etc.
>
> If anyone out there knows some details or has some good
> references on the subject, I would be thankful for a few hints
> and pointers
>
> Frederick W. Faller
> Shiloh Forge Ironware
> Burlington, MA
Fred,
The best book there is on engraving (dignified chasing) is James B.
Meeks' Art of Engraving. It goes way beyond the simpler decoration that
blacksmiths usually use, but it's a great book if you can afford it.
Norm Larson (MAILTO:larbooks@impulse.net)has it I believe.
Donnie Fulwood
**************
Ron--
My number is 1 800 743 4766. Anytime after 6 a.m. is fine. Since I do this
out of my home days, evenings, and week ends are OK times to call.
Norm Larson
larbooks@impulse.net
**************
A very good sitting-down-and-reading book is "The Forgotten Arts" by John Seymore. It has about two pages devoted to Charcoal Burning, but doesn't add much to what has already been said on TheForge.
Charcoal Burning is just one of the 61 "Forgotton Arts" discussed in this book. Some get just a cursory description, some are discussed in reasonable depth. Author also has a great style.
Makes a great coffee-table book too, if you are that way inclined ;-)
Beyers
STRIKERS: (See Also Volume #1)
> I was thinking about strikers. Doing living history I use one for
> starting fires and when demonstrating I use it a few times a day. I
> have never made one. I figure 5160 will work fine. Anything other
> then mild steel I would guess, but then I was wondering if anyone had
> experimented with different alloys and found a particular type of
> steel better for strikers. I was also wondering to what point you
> temper it, should it be harder then a knife blade????softer???? Has
> anyone had any experience in this matter?
>
> Robert
I saved some of the thread a year ago last April when this was
discussed; see below.
Steven O. Smith
From: Russell McCrackin <rusty@proaxis.com>
Subject: Corrected flint & steel directions
Dave, you can enter, but you better get so you consistantly produce flame in
less than 4 seconds, no matter where the contest is. But here are the
"SECRETS":
Start with a good high carbon steel file. DON'T USE ONE FROM SEARS, they
have chrome content. I use about an eight or ten inch smooth mill file.
Measure about five inches from where the tang joins the body. Mark it
with chalk, and break it there. Put the file in a vice with the extra
part above the vice, and hit it with a hammer. Be careful. Protect
your eyes.
Put it in your forge, get a cherry red heat, then stick it into a large
can of perlite or ashes. I use perlite from the garden shop. It's
cheap, does not pack like ashes, so is always easy to stick the file in.
Leave it there until it is cold. You now have an annealed file, and it
will grind easily. So go grind off ALL the file teeth. I mean, ALL of
them. If you leave any, they will act as stress raisers, and your steel
will break at the WRONG time.
Now take it back to the forge, heat it, and bend it so that the shape is
like that below when viewd edge on. The part between A and B can be bent
into a gentle curve, the middle about 1/8 inch below the ends. The
length of A-B should be about 2 1/2 inches. In use, the B-D end is hooked
over the middle section of your ring finger, and the thumb placed on end
A-C, with all of your fingers curved into a loose fist. Why hold it this
way? So that you are less apt to get cut if your flint breaks!!
A_____________________________B
( ) Now harden the steel.
\ <-- This end is made / Heat to an orange heat in
\ from the tang of / a reducing or neutral fire.
| the file. | Hold by one end and plunge
C/ \D into water, move it around
in the water until it is cold.
You now have a steel that will make sparks, but they will be very white,
and burst after traveling only a couple inches. And the steel is so
hard it will probably break if you drop it on a hard surface. So it is
time to TEMPER it.
I set the oven on my wife's kitchen stove to 325 degrees, then while I
wait 20 minutes for it to come to temperature, I take the steel to the
bench grinder and grind the face A-B to a shine. You can also clean up
the curved ends if you wish, I do. I put the steel on an aluminum pie
pan, or a piece of aluminum foil, and put it in the oven. Why the pan
or foil? So that the steel doesn't get any direct radiation heating
if the oven comes on again. Leave the steel alone for about 15 minutes.
After 15 minutes, lift it out with tongs and look at the face A-B. You
want that face to turn a light straw color. If it is a deep straw or blue,
your oven was too hot, so take it back to the forge and harden it again.
If it not yet a light straw color, leave it out of the oven, turn the oven
up another 25 degrees, wait 20 minutes, put the steel in for 15 minutes,
etc. When you finally find the temperature that produces the straw color,
note it down for future use. But put the steel back in the oven, leave
it another 15 minutes. Then turn off the oven. Leave the steel in the
oven until the oven is cold.
Now test the steel. Hold the steel between thumb and ring finger of one
hand, and hit the cirved A-B face a sweeping blow with the sharp edge of
a piece of flint or jasper. Sometimes a piece of quartz will work. You
should get bright orange sparks that travel nearly two feet before they
burst. If they are white and burst in only a couple inches, back to the
oven for a little higher temperature. If they are cool orange, or don't
burst, you got it too hot, back to the forge and harden, then temper at
a slightly cooler temperature.
Make a "char box." An empty one quart paint can will work fine. Get a
new, clean one from the paint store, or put an old one in a fire and
burn it clean. Use a nail to punch a hole in the center of the lid. A
number 8 or 16 common nail works fine. Save the nail.
Now for the char. Get some heavy cotton cloth, such as duck. Unravel
a lot of it. Enough that the wadded up threads will fill the can, but
not packed in. Lots of openings between the threads. Put the lid on
nice and tight. Put the can in a fire. When smoke comes out the hole
in the lid, light the smoke. Turn the can over every now and then,
until no more smoke comes out the hole. Take the can out of the fire,
and QUICKLY put the nail back into the hole to keep air from going in.
leave the can until it is cold. If you open it while hot all the threads
will burn. If it is cold when you open it, you will find a wad of black
thread, nicely charred, and almost pure carbon.
Now to start a fire. Take about a foot of stout sisel or hemp twin.
I like sisel because the fibers are usually finer. Cut it into 3 inch
lengths, and unravel them all. Make a "nest" about 3 inches across with
the fibers. Put a pinch, about 3 inches across and 1/4 to 1/2 inch deep,
of your charred thread on top of the fiber nest. Now get down on your
knees. Put the nest on a dry spot on the ground. Hold the steel about
six inches to a foot above the nest, and strike it with your flint.
When the sparks from the steel land on the charred threads, they will
start the threads glowing. Pick up the nest BY THE EDGES, and blow at
it. The glowing threads will get very hot, the heat will go through
to the fiber, and they will burst into flame. BE CAREFULL!! If you
get everything right, the flame will roar and be like a small blow torch!
Be ready to drop the whole thing as soon as it flames. If you do it
over the bed of your forge, have the small tinder sticks ready to drop
it on, and some more small pieces of wood ready to add.
Most people will char small squares of cloth. Trouble is, the sparks
mostly bounce off the cloth, or if they stick, the glowing coal on the
charred cloth has to burn a hole before heat can get through to the
fiber, and then the glowing coal moves along to a new area before it
heats the fiber very much. With charred threads, the heat goes from
the top threads right through to the ones below, and they add more
heat that goes through to more threads, that add more heat, etc.,
until all that heat hits the fibers, and they really flame, fast and
hot. I usually can get flame with just one short puff.
NOTICE: I make these steels and sell them at rendezvous, and they sell
very nicely. But I'd hate to have you beat me out of sales! So if you
make them and sell them, you can send me a Royalty of 25 cents each.
Not bad, when you can easily get 7 to 10 dollars each for them. Send to
Rusty
rusty@proaxis.com
Subject: Re: Fire Starting with flint & steel.
Tom in Nova Scotia mentioned starting a fire with flint & steel.
If you want to be really authentic get youself a tinder box, a strike a light
(make one in your forge from an old file-- [best]), and a piece of charred,
cotton cloth and a good piece of flint.
The tinder box is best made out of something waterproof like tin. Silver if
you're fancy. Pewter in between and plain iron if you're common. They were
of a size that could be easily carried in the pocket. If your really cool
(and modern) a Campbell's soup can-- with just the right amount of rust on
it-- is great. Keep it on the back of the forge where it will stay warm and
dry.
The strike-a-light, or fire steel, is hard to describe if you haven't seen
one. I can better tell you how to make one. This will have a straight
striker bar 3 to 4" long that fits on the outside of your knuckles and a flat
handle that runs from the top of the flat bar inside your hand and ends below
the edge of your palm with either a quarter circle of a little curlique--
(rhymes with burlique.)
1. To make the bar part. Take an old, really worn out 6 or 8" fine tooth
file. Bring it up to a good, bright yellow and draw out half of it to
one-third of its' width edgewise. Try to keep it the same thickness as the
file is thick. If the teeth are too coarse, you have to weld them shut.
Better to use a really worn out fine tooth file.
2. The handle is made from half of the first draw and draw it out until the
last two thirds of it are two to three times as wide as the file was thick.
On this second draw, hang the file over the rounded edge of your old beat up
anvil so that it has a neat, rounded shoulder on it where it joins the bar
part. You don't want a sharp corner here. Roll up the very end until the
handle part is as long as the width of your four fingers plus 3/4 of an inch.
You can also leave this in a quarter circle.
3. When you've got it drawn out to the proper shape, take a second heat at
that rounded shoulder. Bend the drawn out handle away from the shoulder to a
rough 90 degrees. Drop the tang of the file in the pritchel hole and hold the
bar vertically with your tongs. Hammering straight down, slightly upset the
right angle joint until it looks good.
4. Finish off by bending the rest of the handle over the horn. The interior
circle should match the curve of either your index finger or little finger.
(Some folks use these inverted.)
You should now have a gismo that roughly resembles a pair of brass knuckles
open at either the top of the bottom depending on which way you hold it. The
handle part fits inside the first joint of the knuckles and the bar is
outside the knuckles.
5. With the bar part at a cherry red, drop it into the slack tub.
The nice thing about this little project is that it doesn't matter what size
you make it. It'll fit someone. You can make it as simple or ornate as you
like.
Now for the flint. Get a chunk big enough to hold comfortably in your hand.
Make sure it is of good quality. Black is best-- only because it's called
flint. Brown works just as well but is called chert. (Some chert isn't
flint and doesn't work worth a d~~~.) Some of these rond-i-voo people should
be able to steer you onto a piece. A gun flint will work, but if you use one
make sure it is a musket flint, not a rifle or pistol size. The latter are
too small to hold.
As far as the tinder goes-- and this is the reason I got off on this toot--
is that I never heard of using an oiled rag as Tom mentioned. I'd be
interested in getting more details on the practice. I always use a piece of
charred cotton. Take a chuck of clean, old T shirt and roll it into a tube.
Set one end on fire. When it is burning good, drop it into an air tight
container. A Mason jar works fine. When it is out, you have charred cotton.
Using the cotton as a pad around the flint-- so you don't cut yourself with
the flint-- hold the flint just above the charred part of the cotton. Strike
a sharp edge of the flint with the striker so that the sparks go downward
into the charred cotton. The fun part here is not knocking all the char off
with the bar. When you catch the spark, blow gently into the spark until it
lights. Set what you want on fire and then throw the cotton into the Mason
jar again to be ready for the next time.
Didn't mean to get off on a toot here. It was sort of like drinking a
cuspidor-- once you get started, it's all one, long string to the end. (Part
of an old, gross joke.)
Smile..
Kent
Subject: Re: Fire Starting and shooting the breeze!
At 11:27 AM 4/6/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>At 02:24 PM 4/5/96 -0700, you wrote:
>>>Rusty,
>>As I said in the other e-mail, my best recorded time is 1.8 seconds from
>>flint hitting steel to flame, but I have a personal goal of getting an
>>official time at a contest of strike to flame of under one second. I think
>>it is possible, because it seems like I do it when I practice without a
>>timer checking me.
> I think this is great; under 1 sec...don't let the *match-making*
>companies get wind of this...:o)
>P.S. The type of flint must be a factor in this..
>Thanks for the info..
>-->Thomas B.
Hi Thomas
No, the type of flint doesn't matter as long as it will cut the steel enough
to make sparks. I actually use a piece of jasper because I have a lot of it
and can get it easily from many sites here in Oregon. Flint I have to pay
for, and I'm of Scottish heritage.
The first requirement is a good hot spark that will travel atleast a foot,
maybe 18 inches, betfore bursting. Use a good carbon steel, heat treat it
properly, and you will get them. I see lots of "steels" made at rendezvous
by other smiths out of ordinary hot rolled steel. You get maybe a few cold
orange sparks if you hit it enough.
Real secret is to char those heavy threads unraveled from cotton canvas.
The open spaces let the heat through to the tinder, and having atleast 1/4
inch thickness of char threads keeps the heat supply over one spot on the
tinder long enough to do some good. I described using sisel twin, unraveled,
for tinder. At some rendezvous they don't allow that, so I just use some
dry grass or fine weed stems. If you can get some really rotten wood out of
a stump, dry it and use it. And to be sure you can get a fire started, even
with wet wood or coal, get some pitchy wood. Usually found by digging into
large stumps that have been dead for a while, and started to rot. Rotten
wood and pitch pockets all from the same location.
I wass in a "survival class" run by the local sherrif's office. They
allowed us a knife and 20 matches. Turned us out in wooded area with lots
of blow down trees right after a rain to build a shelter, collect enough
wood for 24 hours (that's a lot!), and get a fire started. I used a knife
made from a ferrier's file, large, sharp, and heavy enough to be able to
hack into dead stumps.
I finished and was sitting in my shelter with a nice fire in less
than 2 hours. After 4 hours they collected all the trainees, and checked
their match supply. Some had none left, and no fire. When I returned
20 matches, they had a hard time believing it, so had to demonstrate flint
and steel method. For a steel I used my belt buckle that had been forged
out of a file, and a piece of hard quartz I picked up on the site. Rotten
wood and a pitch pocket, and no char of any kind. I could have used my
knife for a steel, but it was sort of pitchy by the time I was ready to
start a fire.
Don't try to start a fire by rubbing 2 sticks together unless
they are matches.
Get it hot and hit it hard.
Rusty
From: "D. M. Dickie" <mdickie@awinc.com>
Subject: Flint 'n Steel
An addendum to the discussion of fire starting. The best material I have
used to make char out of is the pure cotton waste that used to be available,
and was used as an oil filter. It would seem to me that some form of natural
cotton fibre should be available in the cotton growing areas? I have a box
of the stuff, and it beats the hell out of trying to fray old jeans or duck.
I agree that the frayed/shredded variety however obtained is better than
using whole cloth.
Rusty nails however, are best made in a Brandy snifter, using room
temperature or slightly warmed Single Malt - Highland Park or the Macallan
come to mind - and eliminating the Drambuie entirely!
Hi Mike.
Yes, "cotton waste" does work. Have a friend that gets a roll of cotton from
the first aide supplies in the drugstore. (Cheap, and lots of cotton.) Cuts
off about a foot of it. Drops it on the ground, and drops a lit match on it.
When the top surface is burning good and black all over, he stomps it out.
Uses a chunk about 3 or 4 inches across to start a fire. Has no trouble with
sparks bouncing off, one strike of the steel and he has several glowing spots.
Only trouble it, when he blows at it, it takes several seconds for the embers
to burn through and make holes, and until there are holes no heat gets through
to his tinder. He always gets fire, but it always takes 10 or 15 seconds.
If you just want fire, works fine, but will never due for a timed contest.
About the Rusty Nails in the Brandy snifter:
I guess it's time fur-r-r-r me tu confess, I ha' tu geeve uup dr-r-r-rinkin'
R-R-R-Rusty Nails. When I was dr-r-r-rinkin' them made from me own bottles
I dina' enjoy them fur-r-r-r the thought o' th' hor-r-r-r-r-r-ubul expense.
An' when I was Dr-r-r-rinkin' them made from some one illses bottles, th'
glass was so full tha' me hand woood shake, an' I'd spill sum, an' then me
tungue wu' get all dir-r-r-rty fr-r-r-r-rum th' floor-r-r-r, an' then I
couldna' taste the wunder-r-r-rfull liqui' an' I'd cr-r-r-r-ry so har-r-r-rd
at not tastin' it that me tear-r-rs wud make the glass over-r-rflow agin, an'
then I'd have tu get down and git me tongue dir-r-r-rty agin. So tu save me
knees fr-r-r-rum all tha' ups en dunes, I ha' tu geeve uup R-R-R-Rusty Nails.
But sur-r-r-re an' as soon as yee invite me over-r-r-r fur a wee dr-r-rop, I
just might take uup the tastin' agin.
Rusty
FLUX: (Also See Volume #1)
Steve and Arlene Jacobson wrote:
> I was just in the scrapbin of the blacksmiths junkyard and someone wrote
> about laundry borax vs anhydrous borax. He stated that you can't use
> laundry borax to weld and that he makes and sells anhydrous borax to
> sell for $25-$35 a pound. I'm a beginner blacksmits but have made all my
> welds using laundry borax. Do you think he was making a joke or just
> trying to make a sale? Would that price be about right for anhydrous
> borax? How does one compare to the other for welding?
> Thanks, Steve
Steve,
I'm with everyone else on this, I've always used Laundry Borax for all my welding. But,
here's a few things to throw in:
First, Anhydrous borax doesn't 'foam' up the way laundry borax does, because the water
has already been removed. This makes it a little easier to work with.
Second, I've seen an address that sells 25# bags of the stuff for like $50.00 so I would
say the price offered to you is awfuly high at $25 -$35 per pound.
Third, you can make your own anhydrous borax. Fill an old pot etc. about 1/4 to 1/3
full of laundry borax, and heat in your forge. The borax will 'foam' up, so be
carefull, but it will eventualy melt down into a thick honey like fluid. Slowly keep
adding borax until you get a sufficient amount of the melted borax, and then pour out
onto a piece of sheet metal. (Be carefull, this stuff is very hot).. Allow to cool and
it will form a sold black glass like substance. Crush or grind this into a powder, and
voila, anhydrous borax. The black glass borax is realy hard, to crush/grind it up, I've
used a piece of 2" black pipe with an end cap. Put the borax into this, and then pound
it up with either a smaller dia pipe/end cap or a rod.
Hope this helps,
Mark Schneider
***********
Back in April Dick Nietfeld posted the following message to theforge:
Back in December 1996, D/S Ralph in the knife-list e-mail posted where he
purchased anhydrous borax. I just purchased a 50 pound bag from the same
place. The seller is in Ohio, is named Aqua Science, has a phone # of
614-252-5000, the person to talk to is Candy. My cost was $79 including
shipping to Nebraska. Shipping was approx. $25 of the $79. I attempted to
get it in my area and was quoted prices as high as $100 for 5 pounds,
therefore I thought Candy's price reasonable. The bag says it was
manufactured by U.S. Borax Inc., 26877 Tourney Road, Valencia, CA
91355-1847, USA. The product is called 20 Mule Team - Dehybor. The bag
also says it may cause reproductive harm based on animal data, so be
careful!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if you want to be reproductive. Thanks D/S Ralph for
the information.
July 31, 1997
This old post got me interested so I just called a U. S. Borax chemist just
now and he said that anhydrous borax will hydrate in the atmosphere unless
put in a container to keep the atmosphere out. He also said putting regular
borax on a cookie sheet in the at oven at 400 degrees or over will
essentially turn it into anhydrous borax. Further, he said that he doesn't
know of anyone making any kind of flux that uses anhydrous borax as opposed
to regular borax because the anhydrous borax is more expensive. Lastly, he
said that the borax you buy in the stores is pure borax except that it has
an anti-caking compound in it. Borax melts at about 1300 degress F and he
said that if it is pure borax, it should be clear or perhaps have a yellow
tinge to it after melting. I know I've melted what I thought was chemically
pure borax and it turned into the glassy black mass thing.
Norm Larson
larbooks@impulse.net
COAL AND COKE: (See Also Volume #1)
Cumberland coal interested me. Where does this coal come from?
Cumberland Elkhorn Coal
950 Swan St.
Louisville, Kentucky, 40204
502? 585-5141
>you happen to know if it is available anyplace closer to me than K Falls?
I think if you get in touch with them they can tell you who buys bulk
closest to you.
>Any information you can pass along regarding this coal, including quality,
>would be greatly appreciated.
This is pea coal, pretty uniform in size, burns pretty clesn, has no stone
in it, leaves little or no clinker. Company motto is: SPECIAL COAL FOR
SPECIAL PEOPLE. I can't yet find the paperwork that tells where in Klamath
Falls I bought it, but haven't yet really had the time. I will find it and
get back to you.
P.S., Al Bart liked it a lot.
Jon Glazer Lame Smith Forge jon@telis.org
***************
I just checked a sack: Cumberland Elkhorn Coal comes from:
950 Swan St.
Louisville, Kentucky, 40204
502? 585-5141
*************
Hi Ron,
I found it. In Klamath Falls, I got the Cumberland Coal from
AMERICAN FEED & FARM SUPPLY
2225 Washburn Way
Sorry I have no phone#, but they're listed. You certainly ought to phone
first if you go to check their price ...in 1995 it was $17.50/50#... and to
confirm they have enough on hand.
Jon Glazer Lame Smith Forge jon@telis.org
*************
> Subject: Forge Coal
> Hello:
> How nice it would be if some one in the Seattle area could clue me in on a
> source of decent forge coal at a reasonable price. I'd be more than happy
> to pop for the beer!
> Thanks,
> Hal
I'm not from Washington state, however I do have an address for coal. Should
you find a different supplier, please let me know. I will add that name to the
suppliers list.
Central Fuel
1945 S. Market Blvd.
Chehalis, WA 98532
206-748-8808
Blacksmith coal. Bring your own containers.
Harry's Leather Shop
2712 Hewitt Avenue
Everett, WA 98201
206-252-5262
Coal supplier.
Morris Coal Sales
26458 Black Diamond Road SE
Maple Valley, WA 98953
206-432-3330
Coal suppliers.
Have a good one.
Mark
***************
> I'm looking for a supplier of blacksmith's or furnace coke in
> the SF Bay Area. I called Lazzari Fuels in Brisbane, they do not
> currently carry coke, but will if there is sufficient demand.
> In the meantime I'm looking for source that might supply a few
> hundred pounds.
>
> If they are other people in the SF Bay Area interested in
> obtaining blacksmith's coke, we could perhaps convince Lazzari
> to stock it, or I can put together a pooled order to one
> of the manufacturers.
I think the next closest supplier to you is:
Coalesce
P.O. Box 7701
South Lake Tahoe, California 96158
916-544-0428
Excellent blacksmithing coal. High BTU value, low ash & sulphur.
Cokes well.
(According to Mark Williams List posted on my Web Page)
Donnie Fulwood, Editor
*************
<< I'm looking for a supplier of blacksmith's or furnace coke in
the SF Bay Area. >>
Call John McClellan - McClellan Blacksmithing in Roseville (near Sacramento).
John is selling 80# bags of coke for $20. The number is (916) 786-0560.
Keith
REPAIR OF A CRACKED FORGE PAN:
A question on detail - did you put the plates on the inside or the outside of
your tray? And - how close was the crack to the tuyere?
I do not have a welder (although friends do) and I do have a drill press....
C.
-----------------------( Forwarded letter follows )--------------------------
I had this exact problem last year with my forge. I tried several of the
fix-ups that have already been suggested. First I tried welding the
crack but I could not get the forge pre-heated enought to prevent
expansion. Next I drilled holes at either end of the crack on either
sided of the crack. I fashioned steel plates to span the holes then put
rivits through the holes and welded the rivit heads to the plates. I
finally coated the inside of the forge with refractory cement. Since
this repair I have had no trouble at all with additional cracking. Chris
Hubbard, Dekalb, IL
For George Montee, and others who may be interested:
Yes, I think an inch is way too thick for a nail header, unless the
hole is an absolute cone that only grips the shank of the nail for about
1/8" or so. Heck, I've got antique carriage bolt headers no more than 5/8"
thick, and they work fine. I'd reduce the thickness of the tool, increase
the taper, or both.
If you want to try something different, I offer the following story...
About 1970 (long before I got started, when I was yet in the fascinated
spectator phase), I spent an afternoon watching and talking to the smith at
Old Sturbridge Village in Masachusetts. This gentleman in his seventies had
spent most of his life smithing in the old railroad shops. For nail-making
demonstrations, he'd made a tool that looked like a farrier's cutoff, i.e.,
a flat blade offset to one side of the hardy, with only an edge taper on the
end. This particular piece had a blade about 4 1/2" long by 1 1/4" wide by
5/16" thick; the shank for the hardy hole was maybe 5" long. About halfway up
the blade was a hole in the center. He'd take his rod from the fire, put a
square taper point on it, then notch it on the cutoff, stick it into the hole
and break it off just below the notch, take the tool out of the anvil and
holding it by the shank, drop the nail point through the pritchel hole and
beat a perfect rose head on top. He tapped the pointed end against the heel of
the anvil, and a new nail fell into a slack tub below. All in one heat, of
course. I bet he could do five a minute once he got the rhythm established.
I thought it was about the slickest thing I'd ever seen. Though I've never
had much interest in making nails, I've always figured that's how I'd do it if
I did.
I didn't know enough then to ask what kind of steel he used for the tool, but
now I suppose it would probably be one of the shock-resistant types like S7.
FWIW,
Dale Dreyfuss
RAILROAD SPIKES: (See Also Volume #1)
> Subject: Re: Out of Ideas
I've also seen them made into doorknockers, with the head either left
alone, or turned into a face. There used to be someone out in this
area who did a lot with them. I can't remember the name. Can anyone
else? Clay, can you remember? (Clay wishes I'd quit pickin' on
him!)
<> Marrin T. Fleet <>
***********
I've made spikes into a pretty useful outdoor bottle opener. Seems pretty
popular for some reason...
Upset or scroll the point into a knob turned up about 30 degrees. Draw out the
rest of the shank to about 150% of original length. Bend in approximately the
center, with the clip on the spike head to the inside of the bend. The idea is
to line it up so the top of the bottle cap rests against the knob while the
edge of the head clip engages the rim of the cap as you pull downward. Remember
the old Coke openers on the sides of the machines? It's the same principle.
You'll have to tweak the edge of the clip to get it to grab just right.
This can be mounted on a fence post, or maybe to the back of the one to which
your vice is fastened.
************
Ron Reil wrote:
> BTW Doug, how much of the spike do you forge into a blade, assuming you
> preserve part for a handle? It seems like the blade would be pretty small.
> I had not thought of making a knife, and the handle too, out of one spike.
Chris Thomas, a beginning BS here in Kent, has forged several knives
that he polishes to a mirror finish then draws temper color into the
twisted handle and freezes it there. These are really pretty to look
at. Most people think they are chromed.
Walt
************
>I could use some suggestions on good uses for rail road spikes. I have
>about 500 pounds of them in new condition and, other than the occasional
>need for a piece of iron that sized, have no ideas what to use them for. I
>have seen comments about knives, but I would prefer a higher grade steel
>for that. If anyone has anything they have found them useful for I would
>appreciate hearing. Thanks.
> Ron
Ron -
Cut the points off so that the head and shaft are about 3.5" long. Weld
them to a strip of 3/16" or 1/4" by 3" or so flat stock. Space them out
right and they make a good back hall coat rack.
Or, send them to me.
Dave Brown
*************
> I could use some suggestions on good uses for rail road spikes.
If they are the "HC" type spikes they should be around 1040 steel.
That makes them just the ticket for tongs and drifts, simple stamps
(basic texture only) and a host of other useful tools. There are
TONS of cutesy items that can be made, but most folks forget that
they can be used for decent tools as well.
Franklyn D. Garland
*************
>I could use some suggestions on good uses for rail road spikes.
One cute little thing is what's called a Tennessee Troll. I have a pix if
you want an scanned attachment. Or I can easily put up a quickie web site
to view it.
Also, another use is for making a door knocker. The spike head makes a good
knocker on a horse shoe. I have pix of this but not developed yet. Flea
market stuf, but fun, none the less.
Not RR spikes but...
Yall have the Blacksmith weinie roaster? Weld together two pieces of pipe,
side by side. Pipe should be large enough to hold weinies in without
touching the sides. Weld attachment to fit into hardie hole, like a
vertical "Y". Put gizmo into forge and get about a black heat. Put gizmo
into hardie hole. Take fork, stick weinies into pipes till done. YUM, YUM.
Impresses the visitors, especially kids.
David
*************
> I could use some suggestions on good uses for rail road spikes. I have
> about 500 pounds of them in new condition and, other than the occasional
> need for a piece of iron that sized, have no ideas what to use them for. I
> have seen comments about knives, but I would prefer a higher grade steel
> for that. If anyone has anything they have found them useful for I would
> appreciate hearing. Thanks.
> Ron
Ron,
I use them for making wizards and trolls. Ive also started a line of
little people using the same technique, Ive made a golfer, my next will
be a blacksmith for our iron-in-the-hat, after that a tennis player,
fisherman etc...
mike
*************
>I could use some suggestions on good uses for rail road spikes. I have
>about 500 pounds of them in new condition and, other than the occasional
>need for a piece of iron that sized, have no ideas what to use them for. I
>have seen comments about knives, but I would prefer a higher grade steel
>for that. If anyone has anything they have found them useful for I would
>appreciate hearing. Thanks.
Ron, you may prefer a higher grade of steel, but RR spike knives
"sell like hot cakes" so don't give up on that idea. Go where the market is!
Rusty
************
> I could use some suggestions on good uses for rail road spikes. I have
> about 500 pounds of them in new condition and, other than the occasional
> need for a piece of iron that sized, have no ideas what to use them for. I
> have seen comments about knives, but I would prefer a higher grade steel
> for that. If anyone has anything they have found them useful for I would
> appreciate hearing. Thanks.
> Ron
They make dandy letter openers Ron and you don't have to worry about
hardening, tempering or edge holding characteristics.
Personally, I like drawing them out into long 30"+ round tapers, leaving
the head. They make cute snakes for candle holders.
They also make decent, if short, tongs.
Frosty
***********
Ron Reil wrote:
> I could use some suggestions on good uses for rail road spikes. I have
> comments about knives, but I would prefer a higher grade steel
> for that. If anyone has anything they have found them useful for I would
> appreciate hearing. Thanks.
> Ron
Andy Anderson of Freedom Forge in Freedom, Oklahoma has made the major
part of his living for several years by turning RR spikes into knives
and very imaginative handles for other implements.
Ted Salyer in Nickerson, Kansas also has found some neat uses. He makes
several kinds of figures with spikes. From cowboys to dragons to
buffalo and on and on.
I can envision several wall hangings from various combinations of
manipulated spikes.
Steak turners made by drawing a spike out to 14 inches or so are popular
at a craft booth.
Do lots of doodles, either on paper or at the forge, and just see what
suggests itself.
Mike George
************
>> I could use some suggestions on good uses for rail road spikes. I have
>> about 500 pounds of them in new condition and, other than the occasional
>> need for a piece of iron that sized, have no ideas what to use them for. I
>> have seen comments about knives, but I would prefer a higher grade steel
>> for that. If anyone has anything they have found them useful for I would
>> appreciate hearing. Thanks.
>> Ron
>They make dandy letter openers Ron and you don't have to worry about
>hardening, tempering or edge holding characteristics.
>Personally, I like drawing them out into long 30"+ round tapers, leaving
>the head. They make cute snakes for candle holders.
>
In previous message I forgot duckhead letter openers, etc. The spike head
is a great start to make a duckhead.
Clay
*************
>I've also seen them made into doorknockers, with the head either left
>alone, or turned into a face. There used to be someone out in this
>area who did a lot with them. I can't remember the name. Can anyone
>else? Clay, can you remember? (Clay wishes I'd quit pickin' on
>him!)
I have made a few rail spike door knockers, candlestands and damper dogs.
Ryan Johnson put the spike in the hardy hole and chiseled a face on the top
of the head,
Mike Pleasant and Gary Scarsbrick split the spike head into feet and then
made a wizard that would stand.
QSRU has had several contests about objectsmade from spikes. Several
goodies there.
I can't find or remember the chisel tang except that it was as you
described, no bolster.
A piece of 3/4"
black iron pipe was fullered down to a cone, then cut off the end of
the pipe. The tang was inserted into a hole left at the point of
the cone, and forge welded. The flare of the cone for the socket
was approximated over the horn of the anvil. An anvil bick would be good.
Clay
************
At 09:31 PM 6/30/97 -0600, you wrote:
>Rusty, do those knives have the rest of the spike on as a handle, or is it
>just using the steel to forge a blade? I have never seen one of these
>before so I am quite interested. Thanks.
> Ron
Ron, I heat the shank of the spike near the head and put a 1/2 turn twist
there, keeping it real close to the head. Then I heat the next part of the
shank, letting the red go into the already twisted part. When it is up to
near an orange heat I dunk the head end up to the hot end of the twist
in the slack tuv for just a couple seconds, then clamp the head in the
vise and do a reverse 1/2 turn on the still hot part. I try to keep the
twist and reverse twist limited to about 3 to 4 inches of the shank.
By heating and dunking between the twists I get a very sharp reversal
of the twist that looks real good.
Then I draw out the remainder of the spike to what ever blade length
and size I want, tapering quickly down from the handle size, but
keeping it uniform in cross section until I have the
length of blade I want. Then I keep it flat, but curve the entire blade
sharply toward the edge that will be sharp. Then I forge the edge
and shape the blade. Forging the edge will expand the metal in that
area and straighten out the curve you just put into the blade. When
the blade is shaped the way I want it, I heat it to cherry red and bury
the blade in a can of vermiculite and let it cool a couple hours.
With the blade now soft I use the bench grinder to finish shaping the
blade. The I heat to cherry in a reducing flame to keep the blade as
clean as possible. Dunk it in oil and stir until cold. Back to the
bench grinder to GENTLY grind and buff to a high polish. Then into
the oven in the kitchen to slowly heat the whole thing until the shine
of the blade reaches the color I want, usually a golden straw color.
I turn the oven off and leave the blade until the oven is cool.
By heat treating this way I get a good usuable blade that is usually
so strong that I can lay an 8 penny nail on a board, put the knife
edge across the nail, and hit the back of the blade with a brass
hammer head, cutting the nail without marking the blade. That is
a good enough blade for me.
Rusty
*************
Ron Reil wrote:
> On average, how long does it take you to make one of them?
After practicing on quite a few (7 to be exact) I can forge one in
about 1.5hrs The ones I sent you were #4,5,& 7. The ones with arms take
about ½ hr longer cuz you have to split the arms out of the back. I use
a treadle hammer to make them. Ive got the step-by-step drawings for
both the treadle hammer way and the hand hammer way. As soon as I get
them digitized and formated Ill post them.
> Also, how do you get your finish. I don't see much in the way of scale, or
> scale scars, on the metal.
I bring everything up to a dull red heat and scrub with a wire brush
until it loses color. Then I chuck it up in the vise and take the 4½"
angle with a brush cup to it. When its shiny (relatively speaking) I
either clear coat with polyurathane spray of I take the torch to it and
bring out the temper colors then clear coat. I prefer the natural colors
of steel to paints and patinas. But paint can be good to hide
imperfections and welds.
> forward to "carving" a few of those spikes up now. I am very glad I asked
> the question I did.
Good luck and if I can help just let me know.
mike
*************
Ron,
Sorry for the delay in response, I sort of began as a hobbyist with RR spikes, and am now covered up professionaly.
To begin with, railroad spike work is looked down upon severely by the artist blacksmith types, so be careful who you go bragging to! I was ignorant of the fact when I started, and did mine at the National Ornamental Metals Musuem right in front of the most critical of the bunch. However, since I was instrumental in erecting their smithy, and because I really don't care anyway nothing was said about it. (To my face, anyway) I enjoy every blow I strike, on whatever the material. End of Sermon.
Other than making animals, (elephants, camels, cowboys) by welding them together, and one instance of driving the spike through a rail, I usually made (and still make) barbeque sets with them. The fork is the easiest, just draw a spike out, split the end, and make a meat fork. A sauce mop is the same, draw out, pierce, and insert yarn. Spatulas are a little harder, but easier with a power hammer. I can get an 18" long spatula with a 3 1/2 square flipper at the end easily. Ladles and spoons are made in a swage block.
Just think of them as pieces of 3/4" square stock, which is all they are.
They are good to impress people about how much can be made with a short piece of steel, so are more useful in short demonstrations, or as gifts to friends, which is the only times I work with them any more. They were very useful to me when I started, and enabled me to do this to my hearts content, so I advise you to beat the hell out of about 400 pounds of them, then go on to bigger and better things. Save the last 100 pounds for your grand children, or just to remind yourself of what you did in your youth.
Charlie McKinney
From: Ron Reil[SMTP:rreil@micron.net]
Hello. Your brother Harold gave me your e-mail address and suggested I
contact you regarding RR Spike work. I have about 500 pounds of rail road
spikes, mostly high carbon, that I am looking for uses, other than building
a rail road, for. He mentioned you make various utensils for barbecue, etc.
I would be very interested in any information you could share on what, and
how, you make these. I am not a commercial smith, just a hobby smith, but I
do like to spend as much time at it as possible at the forge.
Thank you very much for any information you could share with me.
Ron Reil
ARC WELDING AND WELDING ROD: (See Also Volume #1)
While perusing past issues of The Anvils Ring, I came across an article by
Steve Wooldridge that addresses a thread that was bantered about a month or
so ago.
There were questions concerning the "Missle Rod" and where to get it.
According to the article
(AR spring 1986) the "problem solving" rod he uses is the E 312-15 or E 312-16
E = arc electrode
312 = the specific alloy
-15 = DC only
-16 = AC/DC
this rod is used for welding the following :
tool steel to mild steel
tool steel to stainless steel
stainless to mild steel
mild steel to cast iron
tool steel to tool steel
stainless to stainless
the 312 SS rods were developed to weld the alloy fins on jet engine rotors.
Thusly the welds had to be very strong and able to withstand extreamly high
heat. It can be quenched in oil without cracking unlike 7018 rods.
He says there are other, more expesive rods in this catagory, that work
well, but no better than the 312 SS. the are Eutectic 680, Super Missle
Weld, Certanium 792 and Coor-Alloy 3000.
The source listed in the article is Indianapolis Welding Supply
315 West
McCarty St.
Indianapoli
s, IN (sorry no zip)
1-800-382-9006
its more expensive than standard 7018 but ALOT cheaper than the others.
below is a list of makers and their designations
Aga de Mexico, S.A. INOX-ARL 312
Air Products AP 312 AL-DC
Airco Welding Prod. Airco 312 AC-DC
Allweld Equipment Allweld 312-16
Chemetron P&H 312 and Arcaloy 312 AC-DC
Arcos Stainlend 312
Aufhauser E 312-16
Champion Commercial Champion 312-16
Dytron Dytron 312-16
Hobart 312-16
McKay 312 AC-DC
Murex Type 312-16
Perma-Latem Perma-Latem 312-16
Reid-Avery Reid-Avery 312-16
Stoody Stoody 312-16
Unibraze Unibraze 312-16
Welco Welco 312-16
Weldwire Super Weldwire 312-16
Westinghouse 312-16
hope this helps.
mike
*************
Dave: You need to check the welder specs. Sounds like a basic home/shop AC
welder rated at 225 Amps max. What you don't know is what the duty cycle is
which is the time welding compared to the time idling. I suspect it is
around 20 or 30 percent. For info on arc welding, I don't know of a better
reference than " The Procedure Handbook of Arc Welding" by the Lincoln
Electric Company. This is the thirteenth edition dated 1995. I first saw
it mentioned in The Anvils Ring in the back pages a little over a year ago.
In June of 1996 they sent me one for the sum of $15 post paid. Try: The
Lincoln Electric Co. , 22801 St.Clair Ave., Cleveland, Ohio 44117-1199.
Owen
>Friends -
>Tonight's classifieds include the following that I found interesting:
>LINCOLN AC-225-S WELDER, electric with helmet. $150.
>Does anyone know anything about this particular model welder? I am an
>absolute neophyte in the world of welding, and Valerie isn't around to ask.
>Is this a reasonable price, or are negotiations in order?
>Dave Brown
IRON FINISHES: (See Also Volume #1)
We had a salt bath when I worked for Loctite. It was suppose to simulate
years of rust in days of testing.
basicly all you need to do is build an enclosure (doesn't have to be air tight)
at least one plexiglass or glass side would be nice to watch
place a large tub of salt water inside
blow air into a venturi tube (something to suck water out of the tub and blow
it into the air to create a fine mist)(the mist should be dense enough so you
can not see more than10"-15")
Keep the temp between 70 and 85 degrees F
stand your steel upright, so the water does not pool, a few inches apart
Run it 24 hrs and do not let the tub empty (if you can cause the water that
condences on the sides and top to drain into the tub the water will last a
long time)
You should have some nice rust in a week or two
Good luck If you have any questions EMail me.
Marc3
**************
I'm using a clear paste wax with a tablespoon of powdered graphite mixed in.
Makes a nice black finish,especially on those pieces where the end of a poker
is forged but the middle isn't. I put it on while the iron is warm,it soaks
right in and doesn't come off on your hands when it cools. Jim Treadwell
*************
On Jun 25, 9:07pm, steven bronstein wrote:
> Subject: re: iron finishes
> I know it's been posted before but what is the formula for Bill Fiorini's
> finish with Japan Drier, and Johnson Paste Was?
> Thanks.
Try this which is from 1996.
I don't know what you are using your mixture for, but if you are using it
on interior iron a good mixture that I got from Francis Whitaker many years
ago is: 1 part turp., 2 parts boiled linseed oil, 1/4 part bees wax and a
tablespoon or so of japan dryer. This should be put on cold and heated
with a torch just enough to go into the oxide finish and then the remainder
removed with a cloth. If you make this use a double boiler. It also takes
a couple days to set up but looks like a light paste wax.
Bill
Mark
David, you write:
<< Suggestions, as to how to free-up parts without using a
torch (keeping in mind that
this is a large 500 pound iron machine), would be appreciated. >>
The best stuff I've found for rusted solid parts is "KROIL". It is used by
many old car restorers. Apply, tap with hammer, repete daily till loose.
Sooner or later it WILL work. Comes in spray cans and gallons from:
Kano Laboratories
1000 S. Thompson LN
Nashville, TN 37211
615-833-4101
Mike Alexander
LOW HEAT FORGE WELDING: (See Also Volume #1)
O.K., let me see if I explain this in as few words as possible ;-)
Forge welding only requires two things.
1. Clean Surfaces
2. Surface Contact
If you put two pieces of perfectly clean metal together they would
weld at room temperature. Unfortunately, the air oxidizes the metal
and prevents this from happening and getting the metal perfectly
smooth for maximum contact between the pieces is also impossible
(thus far). To overcome oxidation we use heat and flux and to
overcome the issue of surface contact we use pressure. If the metal
is very clean and the suface area contact between the pieces is at a
maximum, welding at lower temperatures become easy.
Here is How Darryl does it for a simple billet:
All pieces of metal in the stack must be ground clean of surface
scale. Rinse the pieces in kerosene (or similar product) as you go
to keep them clean and reapply frequently.
Stack the pieces, flush with kerosene again, and arc weld the edges
all the way around, completely enclosing the billet EXCEPT for one
small area at one end of the billet. Add a few more drops of
kerosene to that opening and stick the whole mess into the forge.
As the metal heats, the kerosene heats up and evaporates.
As the kerosene evaporates, it pushes the oxygen out of the billet.
The hydrocarbons that are left wil actually dissolve into the hot
steel.
Bring it up to tempetaure (orange heat or there-abouts) and apply a
hammer or press to it.
Voila' forge weld.
This is the technique Darryl used to make stainless damascus, and
that awsome flag bowie knife you may have read about. He
uses a big rolling mill for some of the production work. The billet
(once welded up) can be kept around for quite a while as long as
some sort of petrol goes into the hole to keep the pieces from
oxidizing.
If anyone needs me to explain anything further (in case I confused
you) just let me know and I will give it a shot.
If you ever get the chance to see Darryl in action at a conference,
DO SO! You will learn more about forge welding in a couple of hours
than you will learn on your own in years.
Franklyn D. Garland
http://www.mcs.net/~frnklyn
SOLDERING ON PATTERN WELDED BLADES:
On 19 Jun 97 at 15:24, joseph.mcglynn@roche.com 415- wrote:
> >Jim....A young man who is experimenting on pattern welded blades
> >has a problem of losing pattern at the point he solders the guard
> >on . Is there some remedy or is this a problem that can't be
> >helped?
> Soldering shouldn't affect the pattern, although it might make it
> invisable.
In the case of a recent -- and only -- blade that I collabarated on,
we had a similar problem. Rob Keeler, of Keeler Iron, who some of
you may know, forged a 'fantasy chef's knife' blade of carbon steel
shim stock and nickel foil, and I hefted it with a cast sterling
silver bolster and burl rosewood one-piece handle. (The knife was
presented to Fawn Learn, wife of Doug Learn, past president of our
chapter, for her culinary support of Forging On The River for
several years, as well as Repair Days, the RBFC Art Show and Sale,
and other activities). While making the bolster, the pattern
'disappeared' just adjacent to the bolster. We determined that just
handling the blade was removing the coloration of the steel --
wearing it off with my hands, as I was the only one touching it by
that time. I partially restored the coloration displaying the
pattern by using a fine paint brush to apply straight, undiluted
etchant, which was Radio Shack PC board etchant, in this case. Doug
further enhanced the coloration with lemon juice! Noticing
previously that lemon juice darkened the color of steel :^), he spread
some on the light part of the blade. Viola'!! Perhaps we have
discovered something here!
<> Marrin T. Fleet <>
Chris Worsley wrote <snip-snip>
> It is not silver, but the pencil I have been using for years is the
> Berol Prismacolor White #938. Being white, it shows up nicely on
> cold steel, and when the steel is hot (even up to yellow).
This is the kind of pencil I prefer, but you can just ask for a white
charcol pencil, any brand, and buy them by the handful. They are
cheap, can be sharpened to a fine point, will write on wet metal and
basically beat the snot out of soapstone.
Franklyn D. Garland
HAMMERS AND HAMMER HANDLES: (See Also Volume #1)
Travis,
We have a member in BAM that specializes in making hammers
and has given several demonstrations on it. I have used his methods
to make my own hammer and they work.
First the quench. He recomends that once you have the face to critical
temp (non-magnetic) you poor the water on the center of the face.
This makes the center harder than the edges and eliminates the problem
of the water heating up around the hammer which has a large mass. He
recommends using at least 5 gal. to make sure it is cool enough to
prevent uncontroled tempering.
Second. You must temper a hamme!! If you don't it will be too hard and
chip while using and damage your anvil. The easiest way to temper
is polish the face and put in an oven at about 500 deg. You need to bring
it into the purple/blue range, then shut off the oven and let it cool
slowly.
I usuall set the oven a little cooler and then increase the temp as I see
the color. If you over shoot on the temper you will have to re-harden.
Hope this helps
Bob Ehrenberger (Troy Mo)
> Forge722 wrote:
> When reworking a hammer is tempering needed after hardening?
> Is it ok to harden by bringing up to heat then cooling by rotating
> face and ping in water till cool?
> Thanks
> Travis
Bob,
What color comes first in the oven ? straw or blue and what color
will it be if I over shot the temper?
Thanks for all your help!!!!!
Travis
***************
> I agree it would be more comfortable, but I can't find a decent big
> straight peen anywhere. I have a small one with a cross peen on the other
> end. I would like to get a big straight peen and a big combination. Anyone
> have any ideas?
> Thanks
> Marc3
I just made my first hammers this year and was surprised at how
straightforward it is to do so. I had been pretty intimidated about
slitting the eye, but its not that hard.
The hard part about making hammer heads is that you are working with
big stock. If all you have is a hammer and anvil, you are in for some
pretty serious work. A treadle hammer, a flypress, or a power hammer
help immensely.
A couple of tips about making eyes:
SLIT the eye, don't try to punch it. Slitting makes a much
nicer hole whatever you are working on, and takes much less
effort than punching.
Use a HIGH TEMP STEEL for the slitting tool. S7 is pretty
commonly available, I also have used A10. Until you've tried
this type of steel, you won't believe how effective it is.
High temp. steel retains its hardness at a dull red heat.
Using a slitting chisel made from 1/2" A10 with a treadle
hammer, I can easily slit a 1" bar (sheet metal hammer) in one
heat. No water dips needed.
After slitting, drift the eye to shape.
Steven O. Smith
Steven.O.Smith@nsc.com
*************
What we know of hammers and handles: (thanks for asking)
-The hammer is an extention of your fingertips, if you can't feel the face
of your hammer touching and moving the metal then get a different hammer.
-Use a really big hammer. I rough forge most stock (3/8" to 3/4") with a
six pound sledge, refine with a three pound french pattern and fine tune
with a two pound machinists usually all in one heat for a taper. It's my
personal belief that many elbow and joint problems are caused by swinging
too hard. It's easier on your arm to control a few falls of a big hammer
than to swing a pixie hammer hard a hundred times. Don't swing harder for
more power, lift the hammer higher. Anything lighter than a pound and a
half is for quarter inch and lighter stock, or polishing. (my opinion)
-Hammer control comes from experience, not short handles. The longer you
have been hammering, the farther back you can hold the hammer with
acceptable results. Everyone chokes way up now and again for really fine
control, but power comes from a big swing and a long handle.
-There's nothing prettier than wood handle polished to a gleam with honest
work and sweat. Admire the polish and then rough it up. The slicker the
handle the tighter your grip has to be to maintain control. You want to be
able to control your hammer with a relaxed hand. To avoid fatigue keep your
handles roughed with a file or sandpaper or wrapped with grip tape. Lots of
new handles come varnished, remove the finish as it only slicks up the grip.
Wear a sweat band on your wrist to keep sweat from making things slippery.
-Thin your handles down. Even though I've lost a few handles too excessive
thinning, All of my hammer handles have been filed down with a rasp to give
them a bit of flex. This reduces fatigue by absorbing the shock of the blow.
If you haven't been turned on to this trick, you'll be amazed at the relief
it gives your hands.
-Much of a hammer's performance is the handle. If you aren't comfortable
with the grip and balance of a hammer, find a different handle. Some of my
least favorite hammers have become old friends with a new handle.
Peddinghaus makes wonderful great incredible hammers. Their handles are
stout and long and need a bit of thinning. They are costly, but will be
passed on from generation to generation. I've never had to replace or
tighten a Peddinghaus handle. They are a good second choice to an old
hammer passed down to you.
Hope these tips help those who haven't grown soft and spoiled by a power
hammer. (cheap dig by a jealous smith)
--dugnpen
you wrote:
>Let me add to my earlir post. My teacher, Frank Turley, and all my
>prefious reading taught me and I believed and practiced holding the hammer
>at the end of the handle, My query is specifically addressed to those who
>were at the ABANA Conf. this summer and reported on the technique
>advocated by I believe somebody named Uri from Isreal. Memory being what
>it is maybe it was not this past summer but at someothe demo--i am pretty
>sure that Uri was the demonstrator.
--Doug Hays & Penny Cash
I have seen a lot said about swedge blocks the last few days. I just bought
a anvil, tongs some hardy tools and coal form Wallace Metal Work of Kempton,
PA. I'm also in the market for a swedge block. Bruce Wallace told me that
they are going to be casting new swedge blocks in a few weeks. The price has
not been set yet. I ordered mine from a drawing of the pattern that they are
casting. Mr. Wallace told me the price will be about $1.50 to $2.00 per
pound dressed not rough. Depending on how many he casts. He expects the new
block to weigh about 100 pound. It seems the more they cast the cheaper they
will be. He is also working on patterns to cast small and large cone
mandrels. I also visited a older friend of Bruce's who has been collecting
tool it looks like for a 100 years. Between the two of them they have a lot
more blacksmith and antique tools for sale. I'm sure Mr. Wallace would not
mind hearing from you. I found them on the computer myself there E-Mail
adderss is: Walmetalwk@aol.com
Contact: Bruce R. Wallace
Wallace Metal Work & Tool Sales
R.D. # 1 Box 11-A
Blacksmith Lane
Kempton, PA 19529
610-756-3377
K. A. Corson
*************
At 10:12 AM 5/21/97 PDT, you wrote:
>For 80$ it would seem that the Laurel Mfg. swage block is the best bargain.
Certainly would beat torchin' one out.
>Would anyone concur on this?
>Steve Howell
....yes, Steve.. i use one of the Laurel Machine & Foundry swage blocks
every day. They do have a somewhat rough finish, but clean up very nicely. and for the
price who cares? i'm not making jewelry :-) they make a great floor cone mandrel too.
you can even get a floor cone that is machined and polished. they make a lot of
other blacksmith stuff too. small hardy hole cones, anvils, Little Giant
Power Hammer parts & pieces, Gene even has a complete (better than new) 250# Little Giant
Hammer for sale. it's a beauty. you can contact LMF at:
Laurel Machine & Foundry Co.
attn: Gene Mulloy (president and fellow blacksmith)
810 Front Street
P.O. Drawer 1049
Laurel, MS 39441
phone: 601-428-0541
FAX: 601-425-5617
***this has been an un-solicited, un-paid, un-expected testimonial***
***i don't work for LMF, just passing on useful info to "the list"***
Dave Mudge lama@wild.net
**************
George Watts wrote:
> > For 80$ it would seem that the Laurel Mfg. swage block is the best bargain. Certainly would beat torchin' one out.
> > Would anyone concur on this?
> > Steve Howell
> I saw theirs at Alfred, last year and the only reason I didn't get one
> was that I didn't want to haul it back here to San Diego. Decent
> looking product.
> George.
The Lawler block is a nice one, as is the ones Roger Lowrance (Illinois)
is selling. Roger's has a shovel blank on it that most people hate until
they learn how to make the crucial top tool that does the trick. In my
opinion the Yater blocks are the best ones if you can afford them
Definitly buy a new one as the old ones are usually made from junk and
will be chipped and pitted and your work will suffer. Of course my
opinion will change if I am trying to sell you an old block...
Jim McCarty
It pay's to check your notes I found out.According tomy notes jackhammer bit
is S2 tool steel.I started with a 4" piece of steel. 1] Punch the eye with
oval punch.2] Shape the eye of hammer with long oval drift [drift is 12''
long made of 4130 tempered to bronze aneal struck end in vise] .3] While on
drift shape metal around eye with hammer. 4]Draw out pien. 5] Re-insert drift
and reshape eye to prevent distortion. 6] Fuller around pien .7] repeat step
5. 8] Fuller around head of hammer. 9] Repeat step 5. 10] Grind and polish
face and pien. 11] This is hard to describe but here goes I heated the head
slowly to bright red then I re-inserted the drift just enough to hold the
head securly without wobble. Then I used the rim of the quench tub[metal 5
gallon bucket]to rest the drift against and slowly spin the drift with the
hammer head acting like a propellar but only about a quarter inch of the face
and pien touching the water. I did this until the eye of hammer had lost it's
color. Then take hammer head of drift and let air cool. Sorry about the
mis-information about oil quench earlier . Let me know if this is clear
enough in step 11 Good Luck Jim Treadwell P.S.I would like to here of
other way's hammer's or other tools are made!
**************
> It pay's to check your notes I found out.According tomy notes jackhammer bit
> is S2 tool steel.I started with a 4" piece of steel. 1] Punch the eye with
>
Interesting method. Different from the way we're doing it. We are
far more sparing of the drift, perhaps because we made it ourselves
and it was, at least for us, quite a bit of work. We slit though
the head with a slitting chisel and then drift through the resulting
hole. This establishes the location of the eye and whether or not
it appears the material will remain intact or develop any major
structural problems early on. You don't mention using a slitter.
We've found that it is a far superior way ot initiating an eye from
the standpoints of ease and accuracy. I've tried punching right
through with a drift in the past and found it to be a lot more work
than if you do so in a preslitted piece of material.
We never leave the drift in for very long and give it a gentle quench
in paraffin at frequent intervals. We try never to allow it to come
up to red heat, though it has once or twice. We *never* use it as a
mandrel. We've found that the simple act of punching leaves a perfect
eye.
After drifting, we shape the head as we see fit. This usually closes
up the eye a bit and did so quit a lot when we decided that one of the
heads would be a straight peen. After all the shaping and other
fussing
was finished we redrifted the eye, which came out pretty near
perfectly,
brought things back to heat and normalized in vermiculite. From that
point, we clean them up and HT. Voy-luh!
-Andy V.
LINING FORGE PANS: (See Also Volume #1)
Demon Buddha wrote:
> Hi folks,
> I have a question: can anyone here tell me how to clay a portable
> forge and with what? I suspect fire clay would be in order as
> opposed to, say, a refractory cement, but I'm not certain of this
> and how thick the layer should be. Also, how should the clay be
> contoured down to the tuyere?
> Thanks very much.
> -Andy V.
Hey Andy:
Good timing, I'm ramming up a liner for a propane forge today. I use
fire clay, very lightly dampened and ram it in with a wooden mallet or
heavy dowel in tight places. I use only enough water so it sticks
together in a tight lump when I squeeze it hard in my hand, it'll still
make dust. Almost dry like this and it won't shrink check when it dries,
I don't even score it on large surfaces as it doesn't seem to heat check
either.
I add water with a pump sprayer and just lightly mist the surface, then
rake a thin layer of dry clay over the damp stuff and spray it again.
Once all the clay has been raked into a hill on one side of the tub, I
rake it back and forth for a while and give it the squeeze test. If it
fails, I repeat the mist/rake process for the whole batch and test
again. When it clumps when squeezed, I seal the tub and let it stand
overnight, then re-rake and test in the morning, it's a bit like
tempering green sand for casting.
It's easy to smooth and shape, you can even burnish it to a nice shiny
surface if you like. I usually lay it about 1" thick in a forge pan.
After I ram it up, I let it dry for a day or so, doesn't take long, then
fire it with 8-12" of charcoal briquettes. Once fired it's pretty water
resistant and usually lasts several years.
For the propane forge liner I'm doing today, I mixed about 3 parts fine
sawdust to 1 part fire clay and am going to ram it into the space
between 10" and 6" stove pipe. I've wrapped the 6" "mandrel" with 5
layers of newspaper and one layer of saran wrap. The Saran wrap keeps
what little moisture there is from making the newspaper sticky, so I can
pull the mandrel. When you ram it the water will be driven out and dry
newspaper will attract it.
Once I fire the liner, I'm going to paint it with cone 14 porcelain
slip, I'm hoping it'll resist hot borax longer and maybe be a bit
tougher.
Frosty
Amway makes a similiar product called L.O.C. which can be substituted for
"I". This is the surfacant portion of the recipe, Tom
Dr. David C. Hufford wrote:
> Phil Rosche wrote:
> > Can you get the Shaklee Basic "1" via mail order or do you have to find a Shaklee salesperson locally?
> That's Shaklee Basic I (the letter I), NOT 1 (the numeral). As far as I
> know, you must obtain this from a Shaklee salesperson.
> David C. Hufford
**************
> What exactly is "Dawn Dishwashing liquid" and "Shaklee Basic 1 Wetting
> Agent" ? We haven't heard of either here in Australia. Any suggestions? Is
> there something special in this particular dishwashing liquid or wetting
> agent?
The purpose of the Dawn and Basic "i" is to make the water
wetter. Dawn is simply a good quality, hand dishwashing liquid
soap. It doesn't matter what color it is, except that Rob Gunter says
that when the blue stuff turns green, toss the solution and start with
a new batch.
Shaklee Basic I is a wetting agent and surfactant. Maybe the easiest
thing to do is mix up various alternatives and see what kind of
hardness you get from them. A possible surfactant to experiment with
is Kodak Photo-flo, used in film processing to eliminate water beading
on negatives (lowers surface tension). There ought to be something
suitable where you live--try stuff out!
I find superquench most useful in making tooling that will be pounded
on. There are two main advantages:
1. I'm lots more likely to have a piece of mild steel the right
size that a piece of tool steel the right size. Using superquench
doesn't make the mild steel as hard as tool steel certainly, but hard
enough for many purposes.
2. When you superquench a piece of mild steel, you don't need to
temper it, which saves time.
Superquench can be used up to maybe 1045 (axel steel). If you use it
on higher carbon, you are likely to get cracking.
One key to see if your superquench is working is that the steel should
make a screaming noise when it hits the liquid. This means that you
are getting a whole lot of really tiny bubbles, instead of larger
bubbles that insulate more.
Steven O. Smith
SURFACE TEXTURES FOR STEEL: (See Also Volume #1)
If you are interested in doing this seriously, as opposed
to casually, I'd suggest you buy (or borrow) a book entitled
"The Colouring, Bronzing and Patination of Metals" by
Richard Huges and Michael Rowe. It is certainly a definitive
contemporary work on the subject and contains about 360
recipes for patinating copper and related metals and alloys.
It is not cheap at $80, but again if you are looking to
do serious artworks, then I would have to recommend it
highly as it not only gives recipes, but is in itself a
more or less complete textbook on the craft.
Good luck.
-Andy V. - Freehold NJ (happy now?? :) )
**************
Hello Ron,
There is really nothing more to it than has been mentioned in my earlier
post or in Chris Ray's response. I use propane and wasn't sure if the same
results would happen with coal but according to Chris it does. The process
simply involves taking a prolonged heat on a piece of plate stock. A nice
soak hot enough to cause scaling but be careful not to burn.
If you try it without success it can only be that it wasn't in the fire
long enough, in propane I figure 4 or 5 minutes.
hope this helps,
Roger Olsen
On Feb 9, 12:00pm, howell@sqi.com wrote:
> Subject: RE: Mandrels
> To add insult to my quest for more tools, I recently met a girl who's rich
>parents collected mandrels and other 'antique junk'.
> They are unwilling to part with any of their 'antiques', of course, leaving me to say:
> Where can I find a cone mandrel that won't clean out the bank?
> (preferably 'floor' size - ~4ft.)
> Steve
Steve,
New cone mandrels are still being made in this country. Check with LMF (Laurel
Machine & Foundry)
P.O.Box 1049
810 Front Street
Laurel, MS 39440
601-428-0541
Ask for Ray Robinson. I'm not sure what the cost is. With shipping you're
looking at $700 or so. There is another person down south using Wally Yater's
design. I don't remember his name, but I'll look it up and post it to the list
and to you.
Mark
**************
Andrew Morrison wrote:
> I'm looking for a reasonably priced blacksmith's cone out here in California.
> Andy
Well now Andy, if you were here in Sydney (Australia) you could have that cone. I
have them for sale...diameter at base 245mm, top 45mm, height 700mm, flange at
base, wall thickness 22mm, grey cast iron, AU$300. Don't know about shipping
though, might be a bit pricey.
Peter
William Bros. Blacksmiths
Sydney, Australia
***************
Ron
Laurel Machine & Foundry Co. P.O. Box 1049, 810 Front St., Laurel, Ms.
601 428 0541
LMF have a 48in. high cone in in four different styles. Ductile Iron Cone
with or without slot $349 214#, they have a solid core cone for $150
more and if you want a slot add another $225. There is no weight on the
solid core one in my catalog. I got my fire/pot assy. blower, tuyre,
air gate etc. from LMF for $255 real good quality.
Hope this helps Byrne
crusty@neosoft.com
HI David Wilson,
I just did a job bending some small tubes 3/8" (60 pieces) I used a Low
melt metal, it melts at 158° so you just melt it in a double boiler pour
it in, do your bends, then melt it back out in boiling water,
McMaster-carr has it.
also Cerro metals.
It is maked for doing just that, bending tubes, it works real nice.
it is called 'Cerrobend' there are directions for using it, you also can
use it to hold parts that you can't any other way...
good luck!!!
Glenn Horr
***************
>Absent a Hosfeld, which probably isn't up to the task, I would recommend
>large amounts of oxy-acetylene, your rose bud, your jig, heavy gloves and
>a garage door spring. We have bent much two inch pipe in this fashion. You
>didn't specify ID or OD, so perhaps you will have to hunt a bit for the
>proper diameter, but you may be amazed at how easy it is. Tom
Wow, what a thought.... If you could get a spring big enough, you sould
possibly get some advantage by "enclosing" the pipe/tubing with the spring
and bending it (like the bending springs used with copper tubing). Thanks
for the idea, just may come in handy..........
John
WROUGHT IRON: (See Also Volume #1)
On Feb 24, 7:58pm, Leslie L. Whitaker wrote:
> Subject: Re: Market for wrought iron?
> Andy V. wrote:
> > Folks,
> > > real honest to God wroght iron.
> > Okay, I for one would like some wrought iron. How much? I don't know.What
am I willing to pay? More for antique gun restoration, less for
> misc. projects. In short, it cannot be significantly more expensive than
> available materials.
> Les Whitaker
There is a supplier of wrought iron in this country. I'm not sure what the cost
is and I'm not sure what the market is.
The Real Wrought Iron Co, LTD
c/o Tom Ryan
58 Wyman Street
Arlington, MA 02174
617-643-0158 voice & fax
Mark W.
Compiled by Ron Reil
Edited With: AOLpress
©Golden Age Forge
5 Dec. 98